Originally Posted By MPierce >> Beck is a cartoon character. not saying that they don't exist on both sides, but it's scary that people actually think to the extreme that guy does. << What exteme thought are you refering to. I saw views, some different than mine. However I saw no radicalisim or hate. I think like Spirit you are allowing your philosophical differences cloud your judgement in the words you are choosing. Comparing a person to a cartoon figure does not lesson the mans impact on issues of today. I was very much surprised that he was listed on the 100 most interesting people list. A list that I was very much in disagreement with. Frankly I find his views to be very muich in line with Libratarians. Not Marxist radicals.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> So why does the far right think that everything in America is Christian? << Youi are very much misinformed. I'm far right, and I don't believe that at all. I do believe that Christianity had a very strong influence in the founding of this nation. Like I said reread Sparks he was actually living in those times He's not some left wing Pseudo modern day Philosopher that only cares about rewriting the facts of history. >> It;s great. And I know what it proves. Yes, they WERE religious, but the fact that they were Deists in addition to having their own religious beliefs says something. << It saids they had a respect for other religions. To deny the Christianity of the Founding Fathers is to deny real History. George Washington Church of England / Episcopal John Adams Unitarian Benjamin Franklin Episcopalian Going on the bases that to be a Founding Fater you had to be directly involved in one of these three articles. Some were involved in all three. The Delaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, and the Consititution of the United States of America. I believe you will find the majority of scholars recogmize 238 men that fall into the classification of Founding Fathers. To simplify it here's a chart on the break down of religious affiliation. Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers # of Founding Fathers % of Founding Fathers Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7% Presbyterian 30 18.6% Congregationalist 27 16.8% Quaker 7 4.3% Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7% Lutheran 5 3.1% Catholic 3 1.9% Huguenot 3 1.9% Unitarian 3 1.9% Methodist 2 1.2% Calvinist 1 0.6% TOTAL 204 Also, note that the proportions shown (percentage of each religious affiliation out of the total group of Founding Fathers) is the proportion out of Founders whose religious affiliation is known. The religious affiliation of a significant number of signers of the Articles of Confederation is not known, but if that information was available, it is expected that such information would not change the overall proportions signifcantly. Now what does that tell you. Now finish packing I hate a messy suitcase.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Being Christian is fine. I still don't think there should be laws depended on it.
Originally Posted By MPierce >>>Mr Spock would be proud of you.<<< >> Is that a good thing?! << I can tell you're not a Trekkie. It's Mr Spock which means it's gospel.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> >>> You've been reading Ayn Rand again. ""The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."<<< >> I don't follow, Piece. << What you said earlier reminded me of Ayn Rand. A writer I very much enjoy.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> But it was beginning to be thought of as wrong, thank goodness. << I believed it was ban in England in 1774. However indentured servitude was practiced much later than that, and still is in parts of the world today. However, the basic principals of freedom were universally ignored around the world. That is what is so wonderful about our crazy radical thinking Founding Fathers.
Originally Posted By MPierce Rewrite, or trying to shed more light on the past? Changing History to fit your agenda is not shedding light on a subject. But what you imply is something I do not like at all. Exactly what am I implying?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Ah MPierce I fear us oldtimers are in the minority. << That's the way it's meant to be Bobbelee. Eventually the young generation must lead on their own, and develope their own wisdom. I learned at a very early age how smart my elders really were.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Agreed in full! YAY!!! BIPARTISANSHIP!!!! << Bipartianship is what seperates us now. Comprimise, mutual respect, and understanding is what will reunite us once again.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> wh00t...kinda got one. << Congratulations. Feels good doesn't it. By the way when do you leave for the World? I know you are very much looking forward to it. Make sure, and say hello to my ancestor the 14th President of the United States when you're in The Hall of Presidents. Be sure to cheer, and applaud at the end of the presentation.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Being Christian is fine. I still don't think there should be laws depended on it. << I don't know of any law in this country that requires you to be a member of any faith or requires you to practice in any religious belief.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I don't know of any law in this country that requires you to be a member of any faith or requires you to practice in any religious belief.>> Wrong wording on my part. I should have said "based" in Christianity. The fact that there are people who can't get married in our society is despicable, IMO.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The fact that there are people who can't get married in our society is despicable, IMO. << It's only despicable because that's your belief. Not because it's morally or culturally the correct thing to do. After all, the President of the United States of America disagrees with you. While the wife of one of the most hated Presidents, by the free thinking left, agrees with your premise that gay marriage should be legal. California, one of the most liberal States around voted the gay marriage proposition down. Do you think we should have majority rule in this country or have a certain few decide what is morally right for our country, and how do we pick them. By the way old radical redneck, right wing, whacko me supports a gay article of union, and I'm willing to hear arguments for gay marriage, and allow a open vote on the issue State by State as well as a Constitutional revue before the Supreme Court.What a strange world we live in.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I don't care what side thinks it's wrong and which thinks it's right. I don't think like that because I don't give two craps about Democrats and Republicans. I just feel like it's a joke that a country that constantly blows it's own horn on how much "freedom" means to it and how its the "greatest country on earth" restricts some of it's citizens from doing something as basic as marriage.
Originally Posted By MPierce I hate to tell you this, but we are the bastion of freedom in this world. (Here comes another long debate with Spirit.) Because you feel differently about a view point doesn't change that fact. We are free, but we must live under the laws that have been laid down for us. That's what makes us civilized. If you don't like the law, work hard to change it. That is the freedom you have been afforded by past generations. You must also respect the freedom of others in the process. We have not yet digressedd to the point that only one view on a matter is allowed. So you must take into consideration people with opposing views. They have rights also. Are you suggesting their rights should be trampled on because of your beliefs.
