Originally Posted By barboy I've seen that sign many times over near Camp Pendleton the US Marine base along highway 5.
Originally Posted By DaveM Well you are wrong again! There are a few people on LP with Smugmug accts. I happen to hide the owner info so some people cant snoop around in private areas.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>that is the whole California problem. You just don't pay enough taxes<< Ummmm... okay. I'm all for some good ideas and even some compromises to solve the illegal immigration problem, but the idea that we Californians should pay more for a FEDERAL problem is..... interesting. We pay taxes, suposedly, to improve schools, infrastructure, and various services. As it stands now, the Feds ignore the illegal immigration problem (in a time when we are supposed to be engaged in a war on terror -- wouldn't it be nice to know who is coming and going across the borders at night?), and so border states must bear the financial burden of a potential national security threat? I can't buy that. (I would buy it, but I gotta pay my 'low' taxes.)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm all for some good ideas and even some compromises to solve the illegal immigration problem, but the idea that we Californians should pay more for a FEDERAL problem is..... interesting.>> I don't plan to respond any more. Obviously I've hit a raw nerve... kind of like when the Native Americans in Minnesota say they plan to increase the number of fish they intend to take from Lake Mille Lacs. Frankly, I think the whole Californian reaction about this thing is racist. But who cares what I think? I’m not a resident. But you guys better think up a better rationalization for your hatred to tell outsiders, because your present excuses don’t hold up to anyone on the outside looking in.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Frankly, I think the whole Californian reaction about this thing is racist.<< Because I said I favor a solution and compromise? Jeeze, a moderate doesn't stand a chance on these boards any more.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Jeeze, a moderate doesn't stand a chance on these boards any more.>> I wasn't speaking specifically to anyone... just my comments in regard to the overall reaction I've seen on this thread. Moderate comments may have not contributed to my statement whatsoever. (Jeez guys... it's just a crummy Internet Bulletin Board... it's not like anything anyone says has any real importance or impact.)
Originally Posted By DlandDug I doubt that anyone here is truly a racist. We are all over the spectrum politically-- but I haven't seen any overt signs of that particular evil. There are, obviously, many here with wildy divergent attitudes toward illegal immigrants. (That, by the way, is not a racist term. It is a specific term to describe a specific classification of individuals.) I have no idea where the date 1921 was introduced into this. The United States has been tinkering with immigration quotas since the nineteenth century, mostly to control the flow of what here termed "undesirable aliens" (whether Chinese, Irish, Slavs, etc.). The single biggest change was the Immigration Act of 1965, which abolished all quotas on the basis of nationality. There is, at present, a limit limit of 170,000 immigrants from the Eastern Hemisphere and 120,000 immigrants from the Western Hemisphere. America isn't barring legal immigration. (An interesting overview of America's immigration policy may be found here: <a href="http://www.closeup.org/immigrat.htm" target="_blank">http://www.closeup.org/immigra t.htm</a> ) America has every right to limit immigration. America has every right to regulate illegal immigration within its borders. I agree that the SOS, who organized the rally in Maywood, were being deliberately provocative. (The Minutemen simply hitched along for the ride.) But... that is their privilege as American citizens. There are no laws barring organized demonstrations. They were engaging in their free speech rights. Personally, I feel their decision was unwise, but that's just my opinion. Obviously, SOS and others here feel more strongly about what is going on in Maywood than I do. (Of course, until this thread began, I had no idea what was going on in Maywood, since my local MSM hasn't seen fit to report on it.) What is going on in Maywood is a lot of bad legislation. (I hope that all here agree that taking authority to enforce existing law out of the hands of law officers is bad legislation.) I assume that SOS felt that extreme measures were required to draw attention to this situation. I do not for a moment believe that this is a harbinger of ultimate destruction for the American union, or the State of California. I believe in the law, and I believe the law will prevail.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom In responce to post # 164: <<There are, obviously, many here with wildy divergent attitudes toward illegal immigrants.>> They are NOT immigrants. Immigration is a well established legal porcedure. Something many of these people have absolutely no intention of doing.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>If only they came here to be americans, then there wouldn't be a problem.<< Ah...and herein lies the problem. This perception is so interesting. Yes, while a large percentage do come here in order to work, save and build a nest egg back home, many DO come here to make the US their home. The problem is, under the current set of laws, it is nearly impossible to enter the country legally. You either have to be obscenely rich (on a level of the Bush family or more), have close family already here and a naturalized citizen, have a skill that is in high demand for which there aren't enough US workers to fill the need or win one of the rarer than a papal-tiara lottery slot (for which Mexicans are NOT eligible). For those few for whom it is possible, the wait is, at minimum, 10 years. It's even worse for Filipinos (up to 20 years!). Illegal immigration doesn't affect these numbers, it's written into the law that people have to wait so long. Now, if we were to fix the system (something the Deliverance Wing of the Republican Party cannot abide), things would change, but it won't happen anytime soon, sad to say. And let me point out, I do NOT defend illegal immigration. I don't see illegal immigration as a good thing at all. I see it as the symptom of a broken immigration system. The problem is, people in the US are so apt to blame the symptom and attack the poor (the "il-AY-guhl al-EEN") rather than the cause (bad economic policies on both sides of the border).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip In re-reading #161 I see that it was needlessly harsh. I will agree that the U.S. should do a better job of controlling its borders -- for prevention of terrorism if nothing else. I just find the bitterness towards those already here difficult to understand. There is no realistic way to send them all back to Mexico; so doesn't it make sense to try and bring them into the mainstream even if they are "illegal"?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<They are NOT immigrants. Immigration is a well established legal porcedure.>> Mere semantics. Whatever anyone wishes to call them, immigrants, aliens, rides, attractions... it doesn't change the picture.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Frankly, I think the whole Californian reaction about this thing is racist.<< Actually, I don't think there are many racists here on LP. I think maybe one or two, but that's conjecture. On the other hand, I think the larger anti-immigrant sentiment in the United State today IS borne of a racist atttidue. It's fascinating to me that the more segregated one lives from minorities, the more insular and defensive people become around them. It's no surprise that the most anti-immigrant (legal or illegal) come from predominantly white areas.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I just find the bitterness towards those already here difficult to understand. There is no realistic way to send them all back to Mexico; so doesn't it make sense to try and bring them into the mainstream even if they are "illegal"?<< You America-hating "il-AY-guhl al-EEN" lover, you!
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<if we were to fix the system (something the Deliverance Wing of the Republican Party cannot abide), things would change>> I wouldn't pin this on the Republicans. It's a problem that no one is really dealing with.... or at least we haven't seen much change one way or the other.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Actually, I don't think there are many racists here on LP. I think maybe one or two, but that's conjecture.>> I agree. I mixed my thoughts concerning the reaction of those in the news story with the responses people made here. I should not have done that -- I apologize.
Originally Posted By jonvn "many DO come here to make the US their home." Those ones are ok. The ones who come here and try to turn this into their country are not.
Originally Posted By bboisvert Why are corporations allowed to break the law and continue to hire these illegal aliens? If they would enforce the laws already on the books against these corporations, then the number of employers hiring illegals would go down, jobs for American citizens would increase, and there would be no incentive for them to cross illegally, get a job and send the money back to Mexico. The problem would be much easier to control. Of course, the rt-wing would tell you that would drive the cost of everything up. I'd be willing to pay more if it helps the American worker.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>After reading all these posts, senior thinks that The United States of America, Mexico and Canada will someday be a North American Union, just like the European union.<< I seriously hope that this does NOT come to pass. Mexico is in a near state of anarchy at this point. President Fox is giving his State of the Union address today, and it wasn't clear that it would be safe for him to deliver it in the Chamber of Deputies (Congress) due to all the civil unrest going on. In the end he decided to show up in person tonight.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I think the larger anti-immigrant sentiment in the United State today IS borne of a racist atttidue>> I should appreciate what it means to be an illegal alien. I don't know my family's history very well, but as Chinese American, there is certainly the possibility that I might not be here had it not been for some ancestor who wasn't playing by the rules. I don't know if those in government really want to throw out all the people here illegally, any more than they want to change the laws to make those already here legal. It's like a catch-22... what do you do? I don't know, and I think they prefer to just sweep it under the carpet for now and deal with stuff like making it impossible for me to bring a bottle of water on an airplane.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If every illegal visitor left California the first 2 major things adversely affected would be food production(fruits and vegis from the central valley) and direct care(grooming, bathing, feeding and bathroom assistance) to our elderly. << Not necesarily. Harvesting could be automated. And we could issue visas for people that we truly need.
