Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It is worth noting that a negative experience is very powerful, and customers remember them and tell all their friends about them, much more so than a postive experience< yeah I know all about the 10 times harder to win back a customer than getone the first time data.....however how many people go to WDW just to eat ? As a percentage I would have to say it is very very low, as with 35,000 hotel rooms on property and the few sit downs they have --the % eating/planning sit down meals is not very high. As a local AP is one going to cancel your AP because they don;t have a table waiting especially for you...?(doubtful) - As a business are you going to book your occupancy ( just like a hotel does) -in the future on maybe walk in's ? NO If someone has a PS and is looking forward to eating at a particular restaurant evening is it is raining cats and dogs outside ( and the locals are home ) - are you going to keep it -- far more likely than someone strolling in.... People always seem to forget Disney is alsoa business venture...and they use the same profitability models that everyone else does -- whether it be for hotel occupancy ( thus package deals , 7 for 4's etc when times are slow) - and for restaurants the % of tables guaranteed..... This also allows for proper staffing.... No amount of Pixie dust can cover for poor rates and pre booking -- even with the PS system of non guarantee is still better than walk ins' <<Now if WDW were just a restaurant chain, I could see them not caring that they are always booked<, Exactly the opposite-- as then that is the only part of the customer experience they have to keep you happy on is dining....dining is just one of many fronts WDW has to keep it's guests happy on.....media admission prices / rides and attractions , shows, hotel costs and convenience and amenities ....etc. are also part of the whole picture and if one piece is not so hot for some, but the other 90% + of the experience is..I can bet they look the other way
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I disagree here in a way because you still CAN get into the restauarant you just have to plan accordingly.<< Not if: I didn't have to this in the past and No one told me that I had to make ressies 90 days in advance. What if the trip is a spur of the moment one?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>however how many people go to WDW just to eat << Few, if any. But if I went there and couldn't get a table anywhere (because I didn't know that I had to reserve 90 days in advance) and had to feed my family burgers and pizza the whole trip, that would be a negative in my book.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>As a percentage I would have to say it is very very low, as with 35,000 hotel rooms on property and the few sit downs they have --the % eating/planning sit down meals is not very high.<< Agreed, but they changed the formula. Perhaps they should have limited the number of free dinner plans they gave away to a smaller amount. In the end, they left money on the table, since they had to turn paying guests away at the door because they gave away too many dinners.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Exactly the opposite-- as then that is the only part of the customer experience they have to keep you happy on is dining<< But if the local Applebee's is booked then all is well for them. If locals had to make ressies 90 days in advance the they would probably build another one nearby. Obviously WDW restaurants have excess capacity in the low season, hence the deal that was offered. I just think that they dropped the ball and gave away too many dinners. Like I said before, you never want to give away freebies at the expense of turning away paying customers.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Agreed, but they changed the formula. Perhaps they should have limited the number of free dinner plans they gave away to a smaller amount. < absolutely agree with this -- but for someone to cnjur this up-- dining must have been down......
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <In the end, they left money on the table, since they had to turn paying guests away at the door because they gave away too many dinners. < but was it really left on the table because they got customers to book at occupancy rates higher than they would have as evidenced by the crowding -- so I don;t believe they left a dime on the table, and made money
Originally Posted By SJHYM A couple of comments about some of the above posts: There are many of us local/AP holders who DO go to the parks mostly for dinner. It was a regular date night for my wife and I and for awhile we met other AP/friends. We have even made last minute dinner plans with LP posters. Disney has reduced the number of restaurants on property over time. Wasn't there a sit down place at Port Orleans that is no longer there? The AK was planned with no sit-down venues with the exception of that noisy Rainforest. And of course the Adventureland Veranda has been closed forever, the new Noodle Station has had sporatic hours. Over at EPCOT both the Odysee and one of the Innoventions restaurants have been closed for awhile now. Even the Studios closed a location behind the Brown Derby more years ago than I can say. When you give people a coupon for a meal the natural tendency is to go to the locations that will give you the most bang for your meal. So if I were in the MK I would pick Tony's over Pinnochios. I would pick any WS sit-down venue over the hamburger place at the American Adventure. So Disney should realize that this was going to be a problem. Sorry, you can talk till your blue but there is no way your going to convince me that telling guests at the door of a restaraunt that they cannot eat is good or can't be avoided. For many many years Disney ran those places without the 90 day window thing and the system worked well for everyone. So there are 35,000 rooms! There are now four parks, DTD, Pleasure Island, tons of on property hotels, not to mention the Crossroads. My point is that restaurants have grown as Disney has grown. The PS system can be made to work well for everyone. A certain percentage of 90 day reservations, a certain number of walk-ups. Personally I cant see why the 90 day thing is needed inside the parks, but be that as it may, I think the system as it now stands is terrible and terrible guest service.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I doubt that Disney was turning people away from restaurants because they gave away all available spots to people with PS. As far as I know they ALWAYS hold a certain percentage of seats open for walk-ins. What probably happened is what I've seen happen a couple of times at Tony's in the MK. The restaurant has enough PS AND walk-ins already waiting that they know there will be no more available spaces that night. Because of that they stop taking additional walk-ins. So not only did you fail by not making a PS in advance, you failed by not walking in early enough to have a reasonable chance of getting a table. It always amazes me at Tony's... the MK frequently closes at 7:00 PM during the off season and you will have people walking in at 6:15 expecting to get a table. What WERE they thinking? Either get a PS or show up by 5:00 - 5:30. We always make PS a month or two out... even though we don't usually need them during the off season. You never know when a special event or something will attract a lot of people. There are also a few restaurants that seem to fill even during the off season -- Tony's at the MK and San Angel Inn at Epcot being two of them. It really isn't that difficult planning ahead. Let's face it... there aren't that many table service restaurants at most of the parks and of those there are usually one or two that are clearly better than the others. The only place where it is hard making a choice is at Epcot and when deciding which hotel restaurants you want to try. But at those places it is hard to go wrong no matter what you pick. If it's getting close to your PS time and you don't feel like using it; just call up Disney Dining and cancel the PS. We usually cancel or change at least one PS per trip. It really isn't a problem.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < So there are 35,000 rooms! There are now four parks, DTD, Pleasure Island, tons of on property hotels, not to mention the Crossroads. My point is that restaurants have grown as Disney has grown< well since I don't plan to get blue in the face if you don't want to look at the math , then so be it. The restaurants have not increased in any way , shape or form in correlation to the increase in hotels rooms -- especially DVC units where OKW has one restaurant / Saratoga Springs basically has none yet etc.....and the number of units per square foot at the POP etc is huge..... AK only has Rainforest....the restaurants run shorter hours than they used to...since park hours are also shorter -- so goes it for the late eaters... there are plenty of reasons but simple supply and demand says there are not enough tables -- but then what do you do in off season ? Close restaurants ? This is not an easy solution -- and the PS system has worked fine for the past 15 years also....if you want to blame this free dining program-- then that is probably a good target-- but do you think they would have done it if the restaurants would hav ebeen full --no ! They obviously underestimated the amount of people who booked those packages.....if somemarketing genius only looked at last years meal/occupancy rates ( because of 4 hurricanes) - it would look like there was room to handle this....but don;t get me started on the quality of most marketing research. < Personally I cant see why the 90 day thing is needed inside the parks, but be that as it may, I think the system as it now stands is terrible and terrible guest service. < well you wouldn't because you can go whenever you want on a whim-- 95% of the people there cannot...so do you please the 5% or the 95% ? Let me think. You see how many people here also think the system works very well....and if they surveryed me I like the 90 days system very well. So at worst our votes would cancel each other out, and there are far more travelling attendees than local AP's -- which I am sure is why the decisions being made arte being made. Right or wrong for any one group, the best financial model will win out. Now do I think they could allow for a small % ( yes small to equal the % of local AP's who usually eat there -- and someone would have to work that number up with real research) - sure...I'd have no problem with that. But what are the odds they'd even come close to getting that # right ? But most of the people going there have to plan in advance because we come from 1000 - 2000 miles away or further from the UK etc...and we have to plan ahead and we like to know that for planning that far in advance and guaranteeing WDW that we will be there , locking in our $$ to be spent on packages, that we will have an equal chance at getting what we want. No matter how you slice it the chance to get a PS at 90 days is equal -- if you don't like 90 days that still doesn't play into the equal chance equation.
Originally Posted By SJHYM What would happen if the PS System went away altogther and each day started fresh?
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider I think that this 90 day thing is an exagerrated number thrown around on this thread. There may have been an incident here but like I said I've gone to WDW in August (which isn't PEAK but it's still the summer and still fairrly busy) and we never needed 90 day advanced PS. Usually it was day-of in the morning, we'd call or stop by hours in advance and they'd be ready by food-time. I'd really like a status report on people who have tried to get a PS in the morning-of recentlly (In the past few months) and see how much trouble they encountered.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <What would happen if the PS System went away altogther and each day started fresh? < Then the chaos you have for booking seats for Cindy's breakfast would now be the same for all restaurants -- is that what you want ? You think people get up early now ? And there would be a huge negative survey from those who travel to WDW ( the vast majority) - - just don't see that happening - the financial risjs are to high for WDW - that is like saying we won;t take reservations for hotel rooms any more - just travel here and see if you CAN get a room. And on days when the weather is crappy and it is off season -- restaurants with empty tables -- not a very good business move. but for what if's - what if : as they were going to do -- only those who booked thru Disney vacations got to book 90 days our and everyone else 30 days --- DVC members got priority due to their financial commitment AP's got priority over others due to their commitment Only those on the grounds got to eat there Whatever scenario you can envision gives an unfair advantage to one group over the other--- However everyone has a phone and can call as much as 90 days out. As level a playing field as one can get
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I'd really like a status report on people who have tried to get a PS in the morning-of recentlly (In the past few months) and see how much trouble they encountered.< I was there for 2 weeks in June-- I had over 20 PS's -- and probably changed 4 -5 of them like the day before and wasn;t turned away from anywhere. Once this freebie thing is over all will be well -- and yes occassionally you will be turned away from a restaurant on a given night because it is full.....happens everywhere -- I keep reading how there are so many choices ( although Crossroads as a choice -- I can eat at chains at home please ! ) -- so you go to choice number 2 --
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider ^^ I love Jungle Jim's at Cross Roads though! It's a great first night meal Those burgers are nuts!
Originally Posted By hopemax Road Trip, some restaurants don't take walkups at all anymore. I found this out when I went to visit my mother for her birthday. She wanted to eat at Chef Mickey's and first we tried making a reservation at City Hall, and found out they were booked out for the entire week. This shocked me, because even though I have been to WDW many times, I figured I could at least get a Wednesday a week from the day I tried, because it never had been a problem before. Next, I went to the restaurant and asked what their walkup policy was, so I knew what time I had to get there on the day to put our name in, and I was told that they don't accept walkups at all. My Dad and I were talking about this, the other night, and we were recollecting our first trip to WDW in 1995. Back then, you still did the "make your reservation when you arrived at Epcot." I think the bonus of "day of" reservations is that it provides an opportunity to fix past mistakes within a short enough period of time to salvage a vacation. Let's say a family who is doing a Disney trip because that's what American families do, and since it's only an amusement park, who makes dining reservations? (Road Trip was surprised by the number of people that showed up at 6:15 and expected to be seated, figure that there is even a bigger group of people who think the morning of is good enough, or once you arrive on property is good enough.) If they just show up at a restaurant and find it booked, you can find out what the procedure is. So then tomorrow, they know what to do. The 90 day thing can lock out restaurants for the entire length of the vacation, so the only way to fix past mistakes is to book another trip.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider Btw thanks for the update that sounds about right to what we usually experience.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <^^ I love Jungle Jim's at Cross Roads though! It's a great first night meal Those burgers are nuts!< not saying any of the places aren't OK- but they don;t replace like say Le Cellier.........etc. ( although I will tell you Uno's there is nothing like the original Uno or Due here in Chicago - and the pizza they serve is an abomination compared to the original -- and that is true for any of the Uno chain )
Originally Posted By SJHYM The best thing about this topic is that it is informing people about the current situation and they will make some reservations for an upcoming trip, though it wont help us locals. On the downside, if everyone started to make PS 90 days out then the system will really become a mess.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 True, but the % of people that book 90 or 60 days out is still very low comparatively -- and many of us who do change some portion of our 'pre order' if you will.... the issue here is that there are restaurants that closed that have not re opened. And the increase in people staying on the grounds is monumentally hgiher than the restaurant tables available. Couple that with all the advertising and perks to stay on the grounds ( buses / EMH's / special events etc)- and the audience for eating has increased way faster than the cpacity to accomodate them. Until that is rectified, then yes locals and other walk ups will be harder pressed on some days .....if they don't re do this dining freebie, then things will be much better. Another example of WDW really trying to get guests other than locals to eat more on the grounds and book out 90 days is the Disney Dining Experience Card. I got my first this year as I have an AP even though I live in Illinois -- and for $50 -- I saved almost $300 last year by saving the 20% off all sit downs including alcohol. Before 2005 this DDE was only for locals -- obviously that did not sate the amount of tables available so they opened it to all AP's......
