Originally Posted By Sara Tonin I think of death as not a punishment, but a passage to the afterlife or the next life. We are set upon the world to accomplish our own life lessons and then we move on.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin I swear I didn't hit post twice. And I think Joe Jackson is a crazy, mean, old man.
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't really buy into the karma as it pertains to death. There are just too many variables, and luck of the draw enters into it so much too. What about the 11 year old kid that dies of a tumor, where's the karma there? Emperor Hirohito slaughtered millions, and lived in luxury to a ripe old age. Was he somehow "better" than Hitler and Mussolini? I think death is just very unpredictable and random. My Grandpa smoked and drank and lived relatively healthy to 88, and yet you hear about health freak joggers dropping dead in their 40's. And what of that college kid sitting innocently in the cockpit of the motionless monorail do wrong? Just my 2 cents.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And I think Joe Jackson is a crazy, mean, old man.*** There's another point right there. He IS an old man, almost universally reviled as a nasty human being for his actions and selfishness and damage inflicted. Why hasn't karma killed him yet?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Never said karma applied universally. Sometimes people are meant to suffer along with their own conscience.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "As I mentioned before, Joe Jackson wants everything comped. Everything. He wants a free plot or mausoluem, a free top of the line, mother of pearl inlaid casket, a gold ornament not unlike a hood ornament on a car for the casket, a statue, free perpetual maintenance, his own name on the headstone in some way like "...son of his beloved father Joseph", the private service free and all the upkeep on the body comped..." Well of course he wants all that stuff; he's Joe Jackson and he's crazy. Still, none of that means that MJ wanted it or any of the siblings want it or Katherine wants those things. More importantly, Joe can make all the demands he wants, but that doesn't mean anyone is obligated to lift a finger to help him. Joe Jackson is irrelevant and his actions underscore that fact. Has anyone else noticed how quiet Janet Jackson has been through all of this?
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm not sure why it's so hard to accept that SPP has a different perspective on Jackson and his death than others. He's not being irrational about it and he has good reasons for feeling how he does. I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing. I see why fans would believe Jackson was innocent and why they would be saddened at his death. But I certainly see why others would feel differently. I sure didn't think Jerry Falwell's death was sad, and I only wish there really was an afterlife so he could see how screwed up he really was. But I understand that not everyone would share that sentiment.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin I saw her on the BET awards...she looked like how I felt after my mom died...shell shocked and numb and emotionally fragile.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Yes, she did. Still, it's odd to me that the second biggest star in the family hasn't said boo since then. ironically she probably has more money in the bank than he did.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin I just don't see the point in thrashing the dead...I have no idea what he did or didn't do...but I believe his grieving family deserves some respect. And at this point he's no threat to anyone. So what purpose does it serve?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Joe Jackson is irrelevant and his actions underscore that fact." It's a silly point to dispute in the large scheme of things, but how you come to this conclusion is beyond me. Right now, in the Jackson morass, there's no one more relevant. There is no possible way to minimize his involvement and role in the last 10-12 days. None.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "...but I believe his grieving family deserves some respect. And at this point he's no threat to anyone. So what purpose does it serve?" No offense, really, truly, but I think you and Hans and a host of other people are grieving a lot more than many members of his family.
Originally Posted By mele I think people feel the need to mention the bad because people are acting like Michael was Jesus Christ at this point. Many of these same people weren't exactly singing his praises at all during the last few years. While I don't want to bash Michael, I don't think it's any more inappropriate to discuss opinions of his guilt than it is to turn him into some massive angelic hero (not that you're doing that, Sara, but there are tons of people who are but where were these superfans a year or two ago, you know?)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I think people feel the need to mention the bad because people are acting like Michael was Jesus Christ at this point." That's a very good point. Put aside everything I've said here (and yes, I know a lot of people would like to), but let's look at the one indisputable thing he said during that Martin Bashir interview. Namely- he liked to sleep with boys. He saw nothing wrong with it. If he was anyone other than Michael Jackson and went on world-wide television and said that, we all know what would have happened. But him, people make excuses and rationalize it and call it sweet.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin Point taken Mele. I just feel like, "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all.'* And the other side of the coin is he did do a lot for charity over the years. So no one is all bad or all good. * Thumper from Bambi (actually, attributable to Thumper's dad, who is no where to be found)
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Originally Posted By Sara Tonin We're not having trouble grasping your point. But I think our point is just because a man stands out on any corner and recites the Gettysburg Address does not make him Abraham Lincoln. Now it's your turn to try to grasp a point.
