Originally Posted By Fe Maiden Bonds was certainly on his way to becoming the best player of his generation and an immortal within the game. Not just a hall of famer but, an immortal. And I think that would have occurred without steroids. But the seeds of doubt have been planted and most people are not going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think we should for many of the reasons Mr. Toad pointed out.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 I agree on the homeruns but the rest of his stat's never dimished. I just don't think he should categorized with Sosa or McGwire in my mind. They are not the same type of ballplayers. Bonds could do it all. His weakness was his arm on defense and that's about it. He was hurt with a knee injury the entire season, came back at during the month of September. Right back to hitting home runs, getting walked and having a high on base percentage. I think Bonds persona (rightfully so in most incidents) takes away from his talent and that's a shame.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider I'm not saying the guy isn't a great ball player with or without steroids. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think he's one of the few players to get 30 homeruns and 30 stolen bases in the same season? That's amazing. But I just think there are too many "Coincidences" surrounding many of the prolific hitters of the game in the last 5-7 years. He may have had a knee injury- and he may not have. I have my doubts when guys like Giambi come out of these monstrous seasons where they're putting up insane numbers and then it's like "Okay guys next yearw e'll be testing for steroids just so you know" and they mysteriously have to sit out most of the season. Like I said just because he started hitting HRs after his return doesn't mean anything (5 HRs in 14 games is pretty insane), it's probably after both tests as it was in Giambi's situation. Now look, I study Constitutional law and Due Process and all that jazz and believe me in trials I always give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant (I mean I actually withheld judgement on both Michael Jackson AND SCott Peterson...impressive eh?) but as I said this isn't a trial. Furthermore, reasonable doubt only goes so far - when a guy is suspected of steroid/perfomance enhancing substances and he knows he's going to be tested and suddenly he's terrible and there are all these mysterious vague ailments surrounding them and they get benched - then suddenly the last of their drug tests are over and they bounce back like they're made of rubber my brain tells me there's something fishy going on.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think Bonds persona (rightfully so in most incidents) takes away from his talent and that's a shame.<< He sure has made himself an unlikeable guy over the years in his dealings with the press.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<And just because he said he didn't take them ( ala Raffy ) doesn't make that true. >> Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.< You mean when you look at Bonds over the years - you think he just bulked up like that on his own ? The difference between Bonds and Sosa & McGwire -- was that Bonds was a better ballplayer before the additional help then either of them were. That is a given. In fact may have been a HOF'er anyways -- but people just don't explode like that from eating Twinkies. I know it is innocent until proven guilty -- but I sincerely believe that day will come.... As far as his personality- that I could care less about -- don;t care if he's a friendly guy or not -- that's his business and that part of Barry never bothered me in the least.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>but people just don't explode like that from eating Twinkies<< I did. ; )
Originally Posted By Lisann22 <<<that's his business and that part of Barry never bothered me in the least.>>> Me either. I've been around pro athletes enough to know they are no different than the rest of the population. Some are good guys, some are jerks - I pay to watch them perform.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden For some, including the baseball writers of america, your personality does come into play somewhat. Just go ask Jim Rice. The guy's a hall of famer regardless if he was nice to the press. While I could care less about Bonds' personality, the fact that he's a jerk sure makes it more fun to root against him. Not that that would stop me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<<that's his business and that part of Barry never bothered me in the least.>>> Me either. I've been around pro athletes enough to know they are no different than the rest of the population. Some are good guys, some are jerks - I pay to watch them perform.< I worked the McDonalds' Celebrity Golf tournaments when Michael Jordan was the host for a few years ( as my wife was with McDonalds Media relations team) - and met all sorts of sports stars and musicians over those years. Some were so very nice it was amazing...and others were jerks that would make Barry's attitude look like a choir boy. Just the way they were -- at the top of the list --Jim McMahon and Johnny Bench....--- some of the nicest people I met -- Smokey Robinson Ernie Banks Charles Barkley Mario Lemiuex
Originally Posted By Lisann22 I can attest to Johnny Bench too - aye yi yi! What a miserable human being! Charles Barkeley was awesome. Class acts I've met/worked with: Ronnie Lott Joe Montana Steve Young Michael Jordan Mitch Richmond to name a few Cool meets vbdad55.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I can attest to Johnny Bench too - aye yi yi! What a miserable human being! < we had to separate him from fans on the 10th tee - at a charity event now -- because he demanded quiet and no one could talk to him even though he had like a 20 minute wait on 10. Just nasty person. also toos Dan Quayle in the nice guy bin -- maybe the guy couldn't spell and maybe didn;t have what it takes to be Pres,-- but he was very pleasant to everyone and one last one I would be remiss -- Walter Payton -- one of the all time good guys to meet and talk to.
Originally Posted By jdub What the cheez have you folks been DOING in here? If I wanted a BASEBALL discussion, I-- welll... I certainly wouldn't have started this thread! <Sob!> 'Looks like my baby has grown all up!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Baseball is too busy worrying about roofs open vs. closed...I believe the Astro's who host the game tonight should get their choice ! ( and they should start winning soon too, but that's another issue ) Ever since Baseball moved an extra game to the Padres in 1984 when the Cubs should hae had home field but didn't have lights for night games...I think people like Selig have too much influence ...without being checked
Originally Posted By jdub I just feel sorry for the players who suffer the embarrassment of lactose intolerance.
Originally Posted By Mos Def Come on guys! What’s wrong with you? Sure these guys violated the law and ethical code of the sport of baseball. And sure most of them have probably caused permanent damage to their reproductive systems. And yeah, some could spin this as “cheating.†But if there is something “wrong†about injecting liters of neon green frothing liquid into muscles on your back side and hitting 700 foot home runs, then I guess we are ALL guilty.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 My wife who loves to go to hockey and football games--almost falls asleep at baseball games....
Originally Posted By Mos Def Dont get me wrong, baseball drags on and all, buy my god have any of you watched Soccer ever? That thing is slower than a directors cut of a movie about molasses rolling UP a hill. Id rather watch professional grass mowing.
