Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: I thought the Princess Royal Hall for meetings and greetings turned out quite well and haven't heard any complaints against it--yet. But I still miss Snow White's Scary Adventures and wish it hadn't been replaced. Florida's version of Snow White's Scary Adventures was the best one around. But, even so, I think the new princess meet and greet was done very well. Just wish it hadn't replaced an existing attraction.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I agree. From the photos I've seen, it looks like the did a nice job with the meet & greet. I wish that they hadn't taken out a ride for it, but it seems like they did a good job designing the replacement. I didn't particularly care for the style of the portraits of the princesses in the indoor waiting area, but I understand that they wanted them to be instantly recognizable; the outdoor queue is a little bland, but hopefully it will be rarely used, since the indoor portion appears to hold at least 20-30 minutes-worth of queue (plus you have to factor in FP+ slowing it down). But overall it seems to be well executed, despite my opinion on its location
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Absolutely no one has ridden it yet, but your all so sure that it sucks. I don't understand this type of mentality. Perhaps someone could explain it to me. What about it is going to be a disappointment? Is it because it appears that it is heavily themed? No, can't be that, everyone one has wanted one of those. Is it because it won't be a towering, cloud bumping roller coaster? Can't be that because someone would have to be insane to think that something like that would go into Fantasyland. So I'm at a loss here...what was/is everyone expecting?
Originally Posted By barboy ///Absolutely no one has ridden it yet, but your all so sure that it sucks./// ...not sure where you got that? You misplaced 'sucks'; that word looks too strong and completely dismissive for the participating crowd on this topic. How about 'concerns'? Don't you think that is a more accurate word here. ///What about it is going to be a disappointment?/// I think it's safe to say many will be disappointed due to the attraction's duration, scope and scale.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt When I say my expectations aren't high I'm saying that I don't it to be the next WWoHP or Carsland. I'm sure it'll be fine for what it is and better than SWA.
Originally Posted By barboy This mine train came to be positioned as one of the 2 anchoring attractions of New Fantasyland but yet will be released to us as merely a 'D' experience or a high level 'C' New FL(and Magic the Kingdom at large) deserved a bona fide super headlining E-Ticket, but based on Disney hype and expectation gets an underwhelming ride instead.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Hype means exaggerated and/or questionable publicity. I haven't seen anything like that about the Mine Train or the FLE so far.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I haven't seen anything like that about the Mine Train or the FLE so far.<< "The biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history!" that only added the Beauty and the Beast area to the park's usable footprint? Sounds like overblown hype to me Also, the "New Fantasyland" moniker that they're using in all of their promotions is highly misleading, since the majority of the land remains untouched and looks just as bleak as ever While the additions themselves have been quite lovely and well executed, it's the constant hype that's really made it feel like a failure to me. I also wonder if they're regretting the decision to open it in stages, rather than completing everything at once for a bigger impact
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history!" that only added the Beauty and the Beast area to the park's usable footprint? Sounds like overblown hype to me" How exactly is it overblown? It *is* the biggest single expansion at the MK. When the dust settles there will be more there than there was before they started. "Also, the "New Fantasyland" moniker that they're using in all of their promotions is highly misleading, since the majority of the land remains untouched and looks just as bleak as ever' OK, I agree. Maybe it's not highly misleading, but the moniker "New Fantasyland" is hype. However, in all fairness Barboy was specifically talking about the Mine Train and the FL expansion not the overall title of the project. "While the additions themselves have been quite lovely and well executed, it's the constant hype that's really made it feel like a failure to me." I doubt if the average guest shares that perspective Ferret. It seems like constant hype to some of us because we're following it closely and we've been talking about it for several years now. Hype was when Disney "reopened" DCA with great fanfare even though the place never closed down.
Originally Posted By barboy The FL expansion aka "New FL" suffers from hype because of the intense marketing and it fails to deliver a super headlining act. There is a basic 'rule' concerning lands in theme parks be it Universal or Disney.......and it's a good 'rule' to follow: Aside from park entry each 'land' should house a park wide headliner or ambitious anchor attraction: Even though they are both themed nicely Ariel and Mine train is neither due to their rides' duration and scale of architecture/sets
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The FL expansion aka "New FL" suffers from hype because of the intense marketing and it fails to deliver a super headlining act." What "intense marketing" are you talking about specifically? Not trying to argue, I'm seriously interested in knowing what you mean since Disney has used its marketing and synergy strength in far more obvious ways on other theme park projects. For instance DL's New Fantasyland had a network TV special, EPCOT had trailers that ran nationwide in movie theater (this was long before commercials in theaters were commonplace), and DL had a TV show named after it. The stuff they've done for WDW's FLE seems quite modest and restrained in comparison. "Aside from park entry each 'land' should house a park wide headliner or ambitious anchor attraction:" Other than Small World as the single E ticket this has never been consistent for Fantasyland at any Disney park. There are exceptions, of course, such as the old 20,000 Leagues attraction at MK, Matterhorn at DL and the oddly placed HM at TDL. Although it's skewed a little too heavily toward little girls, I would argue that at this point WDW probably has one of the best assortment of attractions of any of current Fantasylands.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance To me, the Fantasyland expansion is a big deal. Adding Mermaid, Dward Coaster, Beaty and Beast thingy, the major new restaurant in a castle!, Princess meet and greet, and the whole Dumbo circus area is quite a lot of additions. They may not have made over older areas, but there is a whole bunch of new stuff. It might lack an E ticket, but in over all "new" stuff, it's more than a Carsland added to DCA, and look at how heavily that was added.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>It *is* the biggest single expansion at the MK.<< I think that honor goes to TL75, when they added the Rocket Jets, PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, and Space Mountain. Whether you're going by landmass or attraction count, I still think that one wins. This is even more apparent when you consider that the space was previously home to 20K and Toontown Fair, both of which can be considered subtractions from any new stuff they're adding now. The biggest expansion in a long time? Yes, definitely. The biggest in the park's history? No.
Originally Posted By barboy ///What "intense marketing" are you talking about specifically?/// including but most defnitely not limited to: brochures, widely circulated TV commercials/spots like 'mirror in the attic', D23 talk, WDW's official guide book with this gem: "the new attractions and eateries in this evolving wonderland, including The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train coaster (an E-ticket addition to the park's attraction lineup),........" Did you catch that? E-Ticket for the Mine train?!?!. And yes I call that 'hype'
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Aside from park entry each 'land' should house a park wide headliner or ambitious anchor attraction:<< Given the budget, and the double construction technique, I believe that WDI anticipated that Mermaid would do this for DCA and MK. When it opened at DCA, the overall reception was somewhat lukewarm, and that was similar to the reception in WDW. Yes, it has some great AA's and is done on a large scale (with huge capacity) for a traditional darkride, but at the same time it just seems to be missing that magic spark for most people >>For instance DL's New Fantasyland had a network TV special...<< Just out of curiosity, when was the last time they did one of those for a new park or addition? I know that a lot of that sort of stuff is now done in conjunction with the Christmas parade, but I think a dedicated TV special would be kind of neat. They did a Travel or Discovery Channel special when Everest opened, but other than that I think it's been a while. Perhaps that DCA opening special that someone linked to a few weeks ago? Maybe TV specials are just too passe these days >> It might lack an E ticket, but in over all "new" stuff, it's more than a Carsland added to DCA, and look at how heavily that was added.<< But Carsland didn't replace anything of substance (sorry, Bountiful Valley Farm, you don't count). Dumbo was already in MK, just relocated. The Barnstormer was already there, just redressed. The Snow White and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea rides were both removed from the land before this project could begin, essentially counteracting the 'addition' of the Mine Train and Mermaid. So that leaves us with a fancy restaurant and a couple character encounters as the net additions of this whole thing. It's a pretty decent list of things they can claim as having updated, but the total addition to the park's bottom line is pretty limited all things considered
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think that honor goes to TL75, when they added the Rocket Jets, PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, and Space Mountain." Oh, that's right! I'd forgotten about those. "Whether you're going by landmass or attraction count, I still think that one wins." I suppose the only real argument against that is that most, if not all, of the 1975 TL additions were part of the original vision for TL when WDW was being built. In other words TL opened half done in '71. What happened in '75 was essentially "phase 2" of the Magic Kingdom's development and not really an expansion. Nevertheless, it was a big addition. "...including but most defnitely not limited to: brochures, widely circulated TV commercials/spots like 'mirror in the attic', D23 talk..." That's all normal promotional stuff. I guess if that's hype then any kind of promotion can be considered hype now. "WDW's official guide book with this gem: "the new attractions and eateries in this evolving wonderland, including The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train coaster (an E-ticket addition to the park's attraction lineup),........"" OK, based on what we know about this ride, I'd consider that hype. However, using the scale that was in existence when A-E coupons were around the Mine Train could possibly turn out to be an E ticket. It's highly unlikely though.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance "So that leaves us with a fancy restaurant and a couple character encounters as the net additions of this whole thing. It's a pretty decent list of things they can claim as having updated, but the total addition to the park's bottom line is pretty limited all things considered" But it is NEW, right?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Just out of curiosity, when was the last time they did one of those for a new park or addition?" I wasn't suggesting that FLE needed a TV special to meet the criteria for marketing hype; I was simply giving an example of the lengths Disney has gone to promote new additions at their parks on a national level that exceed what I've seen for the FLE. For example: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://parksandresorts.wdpromedia.com/media/disneyparks/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ros118938LARGE.jpg">http://parksandresorts.wdprome...ARGE.jpg</a>
