Originally Posted By TDLFAN If they put further restrictions on MS, they may as well close it altogether. There is virtually no line for this spinning turkey. Today, it was showing 5 min wait for stand by at 2pm.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<The family's lawyer, Robert A. Samartin of Tampa, wrote Disney earlier that there are no standards to determine the danger of gravitational forces experienced by anyone under 48 inches tall on an amusement-park ride.>> Hmmmm. I wonder if he has statistics on the gravitational effects of a dad spinning his two-year old kid around by the arms and legs? Probably not. The results of that study would show that we'd all have been long dead before we were ever tall enough to board Mission: Space.
Originally Posted By SJHYM I have to say I am honestly amazed at the tone of this thread. These parents, whose child has died and who obviously got onto the ride because he met the standards at the time, has asked Disney to raise the height standard. I dont see that is unreasonable at all. So a child might have to wait till next trip to ride Mission:Space...big deal. These parents did not intentionally put their child in harms way. They didnt sneak him onto the ride. They feel that Mission:Space is a contributing factor in this childs death. And I have to say that the attraction is obviously intense for many adults (MS has the most ambulance runs than any other attraction) not to mention children. So is it unreasonable to suggest that Disney should look at its boarding requirements?
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Disney is really between a rock and a hard palce... Option 1, change the signage by adding an age requirement, increased height requirement or something similar while the "investigation" is still ongoing. Alas, that would open up Disney in a lawsuit, basically admitting that the ride was "mislabled" when the child rode. Drawback, the company is gambling that another kid won't get seriously sick or killed. Option 2, wait for the final results of the Autopsy and a settlement with the family, then change the signage (no worries about the lawsuit). Option 3, don't change a thing, and hope that the Autopsy or Lawsuit will find Disney at fault.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<These parents did not intentionally put their child in harms way. They didnt sneak him onto the ride. They feel that Mission:Space is a contributing factor in this childs death. And I have to say that the attraction is obviously intense for many adults (MS has the most ambulance runs than any other attraction) not to mention children. So is it unreasonable to suggest that Disney should look at its boarding requirements?>> When bad things happen to a loved one, it's not uncommon for the survivors to get the "Do Something" Syndrome. People don't want to believe that such a tragedy could have happened for random reasons. It has to be SOMEONE's fault. Something MUST be done. They need to channel their energy into what they perceive to be a positive (or retributional) way. At the university where I work, a kid died from falling out of the window of her upper-level dorm room a few years back. The parents deMANDED reforms to all dorm room windows on campus -- even though they easily met all applicable safety standards. That was an easier thing for them to do than to admit that their daughter had gotten stinking drunk and somehow managed to wedge herself out of her window. The parents of the kid who died on M:S need to believe that Disney is responsible. There's no evidence that that is true.
Originally Posted By Kimrue It's so difficult to determine what SHOULD be done when we still have no idea what actually happened to the child. I personally don't understand how or why a parent would put a 4 year old on a ride like mission:space. Sometimes kids THINK they want to do something but it's up to the parents to use discretion. My daughter wanted to see "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" with Johnny depp when she saw a sign for it in the mall. My husband and I got a sitter and went to see it before making the decision NOT to take her. While she BEGGED us to take her, we KNEW it would be too much for her to deal with and would end up being wigged out and battling nightmares. I'm not saying that I'm the authority on parenting but I'm the "norm" MOST parents know that you need to use discretion when allowing your child to be exposed to things they THINK they want to experience. We're talking about a 4 YEAR OLD!!! I don't think any parent deserves to lose a child because they didn't use discretion, however my mind is boggled how nobody put the reigns on this before it ever came to be. I don't care how tall the child is HE WAS FOUR YEARS OLD!!! A tall child still acts their age. I guess all of our opinions will vary according to what WE personally believe happened. Until we KNOW, it's going to be a bunch of debating (which is good)until the topic is done.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer This debate will continue until the final autopsy report comes saying that the ride was or was not at fault. My guess is that if it finds that the ride was not at fault we will never hear about it again. But if the ride was the cause all h**l will let loose. As far as all of you saying that a 4 year old shouldn't be allowed on the ride, I can see your point because there are always parents who force their child on a ride, however, my daughter was already tall enough to ride before the ride opened and she was only 4. We rode it immediately after opening (by then she was 5) with no problems and honestly, even in hind sight, if it had opened sooner I would have let her ride. She is that kind of child. Of course if any of you remember the previous thread on this topic, I did have a height problem that I wasn't even aware of. Either way, she loves this ride.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider "I have to say I am honestly amazed at the tone of this thread. These parents, whose child has died and who obviously got onto the ride because he met the standards at the time, has asked Disney to raise the height standard. I dont see that is unreasonable at all. So a child might have to wait till next trip to ride Mission:Space...big deal. These parents did not intentionally put their child in harms way. They didnt sneak him onto the ride. They feel that Mission:Space is a contributing factor in this childs death. And I have to say that the attraction is obviously intense for many adults (MS has the most ambulance runs than any other attraction) not to mention children. So is it unreasonable to suggest that Disney should look at its boarding requirements? " I don't have a problem with them changing the requirements for the ride, but I seriously fail to see how that would help remedy -anything-. I've always thought of the height measurement as only a way to ensure that a rider isn't too small for the safety restraints which is obviously understandable. In a case like this though, unless the child somehow fell out of the ride due to size (which I'm pretty sure has been ruled out...) I don't understand how size will matter. The problem with rides is that the problems that are truly a risk for riders tend to be internal - you can't measure them with a yardstick. Unless Disney starts requiring signed doctor's notes dated no less than a week prior to park admission I don't see how things like this can be prevented. I agree it IS a tragedy and I can sympathize with the family but I just don't see how a knee-jerk reaction of "Raise the height restriction" will help -anyone-. I can understand why Disney is reluctant as it would seem like an admission of guilt and in truth I don't see raising the height restriction by x-inches will save anyone from any accidents. People's bodie (and I think it's fair to also include minds/maturity here too) vary greatly regardless of height. I've seen grown adults on Tower of Terror who were on the verge of tears in the first 5 seconds of the ride (before the elevator even started to ascend) while their children are laughing and smiling, the same adults were looking for the nearest trash can to vomit in after the ride while their kids were trying to get back in line. I just think that if there does need to be a change made to ride restrictions it probably should be more suited to the problem - raising the height restriction is like trying to use a bandaid to help with a gunshot wound - yea it may slow the bleeding (MAYBE) but obviously it fixes nothing and more specific treatment must be applied.
Originally Posted By disneyfreaksk So far, nothing indicates that this accident was a physical condition. Raising the height requirement isn't the solution. It is an emotional development issue. I think an age restriction would be more appropriate, but also, everyone matures at different rates too. There really is no easy fix. Things happen no matter what precautions we take.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <If they put further restrictions on MS, they may as well close it altogether. There is virtually no line for this spinning turkey. Today, it was showing 5 min wait for stand by at 2pm.> I've been going to Disney theme parks since I was 7 [I'm 43 now], and I would not ride 'Mission:Space' -- the concept scares me and the sense of claustrophibia just freaks me out. So, yeah, if I'm out -- I imagine a lot of people would be. My wife and daughter wouldn't ride either -- too scary.
Originally Posted By LadyandtheTramp "The family's lawyer, Robert A. Samartin of Tampa, wrote Disney earlier that there are no standards to determine the danger of gravitational forces experienced by anyone under 48 inches tall on an amusement-park ride." I wonder how many standards there are to determine the danger of gravitational forces experienced by anyone between 48 and 51 inches tall on an amusement-park ride? 54 inclhes tall? 60 inches tall? The attorney was fallacious reasoning - unless there is, of course, such standards. As to the suggestion that there be a viewing area, I think there might be an even better way to accomplish this - have the parent go on the ride without the child first. No need to see what the ride looks like - experience it instead, get a true feel for it. I haven't found any requirement that states that everyone in the family must go on a ride together the first time - as an adult and parent, you can make the rules, and the rule can be quite simple - nobody rides until I do and check it out.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<It is an emotional development issue.>> Are you saying the boy was scared to death?
Originally Posted By Kimrue I can't speak for everyone but I personally think the child was scared to death.
Originally Posted By XandersMom I understand how tragic this child's death is as well. As a mother I cannot imagine how terrible that must be, and how shocking it must be when you think that at Disney your child would be safe. With that said, just because you CAN ride the ride doesn't mean you SHOULD ride the ride! What about the parent making the call? I am sure that all of you discussing this have ridden the ride. Yes it is somewhat intense, but it is not outrageous! It is just a ride! I haven't let my youngest child ride it and probably won't this trip because he isn't ready. Is he tall enough? He has been tall enough to ride everything in all the parks since he was three years old! He loves Splash and Space mountains, but this MS is a different thing altogether! I think that there was something wrong with this child that really had nothing to do with the height requirement at all. If Disney changes that, they are already assuming a level of responsibility. How is it their fault at this point? It may be determined later.. but I honestly do not think that it would be. If rides are going to be governed like this, what about the lady that had the stroke on Pirates? Is that Disney's fault too? She had preexisting conditions and she knew it... I just think the parents have to be ultimately responsible. They know their children... If the height requirement directly had to do with the child's accident that would be another matter, but so far we do not know that... and I bet it doesn't at all....
Originally Posted By SJHYM ^^^The problem is you cant expect people to make decisions wisely. Years ago I spent 30 mins talking to a VERY pregnant woman about her decision to ride Space Mountain. Back then if a person was pregnant and insisted on riding a supervisor was called in to discuss the ride with the person. Ultimately it was the guests decision but I strongly recommended that she didnt ride. Finally, the husband rode alone then came out and told his wife...no way. Had I just let them on she probably would have ridden and probably would have come off ok but how do we know that is going to be the outcome until they ride? My experience in Disney mgmt is that: 1)People dont believe the warning signs 2) Dont believe that it applies to them 3) Think their children are the exception 4)Have ridden other rides with warning signs and they werent that bad 5) It's Disney...how intense can it be? 6) Disney over emphasises the warning because they dont want to be sued. 7) Dont use critical thinking skills while on vacation. They are having fun and Disney is known for its safety so they check their brains at the door. If
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I really don't believe that a healthy child or adult, for that matter, can be "scared to death". Fear is a stress factor and being such can have an adverse effect on a weak body part but not on a strong one. That, of course, is open for discussion but, IMHO unless the child had a problem, diagosed or undiagnosed, a bit of a fright would not have harmed him. Also being an old codger, like myself, and having ridden this ride a few times I just didn't find anything about it that was so intense that it might kill someone. The simulated take off was the only part that I felt pressure on but that only lasted a couple of seconds. I guess, if the information is made public, it will be interesting to see exactly what the real problem was.
Originally Posted By Socrates There is such a variation among the general population. I have a friend who took his 66-year-old mother on Star Tours... and nearly got kicked out of the family as a result. Wasn't the fun experience for her that he thought it would be. He still may not be back in the will. Socrates "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider I seriously have issue with the whole "Height" thing. A lot of people look at that as the end all be all way of predicting how "bad" a ride is. I think Disney, and all theme-parks, are in a Catch 22 for the reasons SJHYM mentioned above. No matter how many warnings they put on a ride people will inevitably disregard and in some cases may actually WANT their children on the ride more ("Oh if it's that thrilling my child should NOT miss it!") and if they start revealing the ride to people before they board then it ruins the element of fun and surprise on the ride to an extent. That's like telling people in line for a movie the ending. They're in a tough spot but no matter what they do people will always manage to either disregard or slip the warnings. In all honesty I'm surprised more deaths haven't occurred in WDW over the years (I know there have been a number but for the daily volumes of people there it's considerably small) considering heart-attack or stroke or any number of other afflictions can occur at ANY time, let alone in some "Thrilling" and immersive fantasy worlds where people are probably a little more excited and dare I say vulnerable to suffering from some sort of attack. I'm not saying it's the park I"m just saying when thousands of people are in the parks every day you'd think heart attacks and strokes would be more visible in the parks just through sheer odds. I guess the thing is there are probably a lot who DO suffer attacks while at the parks but thanks to rapid response they don't pass away thankfully and the media doesn't see "Man suffers heart attack walking through Fantasyland" as big as "Boy dies while riding It's a Small World" (made up examples) so maybe it happens a lot more than we hear about.
