Originally Posted By MPierce Not within the framework of WDW, have you. I have been exposed to people of all levels of responsibility within my small limitations of the corporate, and judicial world. So I would not consider myself a person that was overly impressed with a title. However I am impressed when a person does his or her job well on any level.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^You are wasting your time MPierce ... Goof just won't give up with his hyperbole that really stretches the bounds of what is acceptable behavior here. Calling someone a stalker because they discuss the promotion of some one into the No. 2 exec role at the MK is absurd ... and a bit psycho if you ask me. I didn't delve into the man's personal life beyond saying he was Lee Cockerell's son ... he is and if you don't believe Daddy helped start his Disney career, you are ignorant to the ways of the working world (not just Walt Disney World). Goof just thinks he can discredit my points by namecalling. As both a WDW lover and shareholder, anyone in an exec position is very fair fodder for this site. I recall it was 'The Latest' that broke the news that Val Bunting was becoming DAK's VP ... leaving her position open for Dan to begin with. This isn't picking on some CM at the Emporium because they weren't nice (not you Em!) ...
Originally Posted By -em >>This isn't picking on some CM at the Emporium because they weren't nice (not you Em!) ... << Well since I work in Tomorrowland now.. I won't take offense I can just say that this thread has been very thought provoking... I obviously have my opinions as I work at the MK in Merchandise but its been interesting to see the and put things into the bigger perspective... And for the record I agree with Spirit, over its not the person its the actions that are being judged and commented over, just as politicians, celebs etc. I don't see anything wrong with this or other conversations (assuming it stays clean..) -em
Originally Posted By Socrates What good do any of these comments do if he/she doesn't work for us? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Hmmmmm....so now you're supposed to be a STALKER, of all things, Spirit, duckling?! What lengths some DoM's will go in trying to throw mud at you while you state a simple concern for the future of the Magic Kingdom. It's very sad for them but not for the rest of us. Keep being the champion for high quality that you've always been! As always, you have the blessings from Morva.
Originally Posted By danyoung Please, pretty please, can we all agree at least to STOP USING THE STUPID DoM handle??? I didn't like it when Al invented it, and the more I see it the more it bugs me!!!
Originally Posted By jonvn What do you expect from these people? I like it, though, because it shows them for the divisive and mean spirited lowlife that they are.. They're profiling people on their own site now. Oh, and they have name tags for when they go into the park, now, too. Isn't that all great?
Originally Posted By jonvn If these people are not public figures (put out some sort of publicity item) then there is no reason to be looking at them, finding out their names, or any other such thing. That's really not good. It's inappropriate, and whether it is a public company or not, that sort of person is NOT a public figure. And someone can get into quite a bit of hot water if a non-public figure is spoken of in a way that could cause that person personal difficulty. It's not a good idea. You should not do it.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: One good turn deserves another. Stop calling other Stalkers or other names and we'll stop using the label of DoM. Until then...
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: I was just thinking that the term Defender of Mediocrity isn't nearly so bad as 'stalker'. Being called a stalker--or a mindless minion--THAT's mean spirited. ORGOCH: Fer once ya said somethin' smart, sister. Once agin, jonvn needs ta take his own advice an' stop pretendin' ta be ev'rybody's moral compass 'round here.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<If these people are not public figures (put out some sort of publicity item) then there is no reason to be looking at them, finding out their names, or any other such thing.>> Disney executives are the public 'face' of the company. And their names are out there just like any other company. I equate then with execs for Sprint, Target, Florida Power and Light and Continental Airlines ... except they are much more in the public eye. The idea that executives of companies should be shielded or cloaked is patently absurd. The information is out there for anyone to find out to begin with. And knowing a name or a work phone number is in no sane, rational way the same as stalking someone. When you see me going through Phil Holmes' trash or stalking him when he goes to get his teeth whitened then you'd have a point. Someone might accuse you of stalking Al Lutz since it sometimes seems like 90% of your posts are either about him or people you view as his 'followers.' <<That's really not good. It's inappropriate, and whether it is a public company or not, that sort of person is NOT a public figure. And someone can get into quite a bit of hot water if a non-public figure is spoken of in a way that could cause that person personal difficulty.>> By your reasoning the only person at Disney who should ever be discussed is Bob Iger. Patently absurd. The man in question here is the No. 2 executive in charge of the world's No. 1 most visited (if you believe the numbers) theme park. His choices will determine many aspects of how magical guests' visits. While his personal life, or anyone's, shouldn't be fodder for this forum (unless they do things that put their lives out there), his professional decisions can, will and should be examined. Same as if someone questions an exec from Sprint about their business policies on a cell phone/communications forum or if someone discusses an exec at Delta Airlines who just decided to make their SkyMiles almost worthless on a frequent flyer blog. <<It's not a good idea. You should not do it.>> Thanks for the advice, Jon. I'd say the same about you and Mr. Lutz too ... either that or I'd say you two should just 'get a room.' ;-)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Disney executives are the public 'face' of the company. And their names are out there just like any other company. >> The position listed in this thread is not listed on the public relations website for WDW -- which does list bios and background on a number of executives. The MK "GM of Ops" is not in any way, shape, or form a public position. Operations management is an internal function and the leader of that organization is only the "face" for his/her subordinates. I recognize that there are a number of Disney executive wannabes out there who, for one reason or another, didn't achieve their lifelong dream of running the MK. Trying to live vicariously through the lives of people you aspire to be by hunting down their names and talking incessantly about them in an online discussion board is not healthy behavior.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The position listed in this thread is not listed on the public relations website for WDW -- which does list bios and background on a number of executives.>> Oh poor Dan, he'll have to get someone to put his picture up. <<The MK "GM of Ops" is not in any way, shape, or form a public position. Operations management is an internal function and the leader of that organization is only the "face" for his/her subordinates.>> It is the No. 2 position when it comes to running the park. Kind of like Dick. If Phil were to come down with the Asian flu after realizing how much better TDL is, Dan would be in charge. <<I recognize that there are a number of Disney executive wannabes out there who, for one reason or another, didn't achieve their lifelong dream of running the MK. Trying to live vicariously through the lives of people you aspire to be by hunting down their names and talking incessantly about them in an online discussion board is not healthy behavior.>> And stalking other LP posters because you are a business dweeb who doesn't like when people in management are held responsible for their actions that reduce enjoyment for guests isn't healthy either. And, FYI, I have no desire to work in running theme parks. Just not my thing.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Interesting that someone with "no desire" to run theme parks feels overly qualified to tell people exactly how they should do it? << Kind of like Dick. If Phil were to come down with the Asian flu after realizing how much better TDL is, Dan would be in charge. >> It's also interesting to note that the use of people's names in a familiar manner such as this to indicate you have a personal relationship with these people even though you don't is a well-documented symptom of a psychological disorder related to stalking behavior. It's common for people who desire to have a relationship with others that they cannot possibly have a relationship with to use familiar names and detailed personal information to elicit feelings of belonging to a group from which they are excluded.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Once agin, jonvn needs ta take his own advice an' stop pretendin' ta be ev'rybody's moral compass 'round here. " I never called anyone a stalker. You're so quick to rip into me, you'll just sort of grab onto anything. What an idiot.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Disney executives are the public 'face' of the company." Well, see, no, they aren't. Unless they have done something like put out a publicity packet on themselves, they are private individuals. And if you are not careful, you can get into a bit of hot water by what you say over them. "And knowing a name or a work phone number is in no sane, rational way the same as stalking someone." Actually, it can be. "Someone might accuse you of stalking Al Lutz" They could, and they'd be wrong. Responding to his comments is not stalking him. In fact, he invites comments to his blogging. It wouldn't matter if it were 100% of my posts, he has held himself out for public comment, and that's what he gets. "By your reasoning the only person at Disney who should ever be discussed is Bob Iger." Other individuals have held themselves out as public figures from the company, as well, such as Tony Baxter. If they have done no such thing, they are private parties. "The man in question here is the No. 2 executive in charge" It doesn't matter. That's a mid level manager in a corporation of this size, and as such a private person, unless, again, he has done something which would change his status. "his professional decisions can, will and should be examined." And this is where you can run into trouble. Specifically, if you state things that could cause him to either lose his job, or weaken his ability to get another job, that's an issue. "Same as if someone questions an exec from Sprint about their business policies" Yes, it would be. Which is also not a good thing to do because that also can get people into trouble. "The position listed in this thread is not listed on the public relations website for WDW -- which does list bios and background on a number of executives." If that is true, then this is not a public person in any way, and is a private individual. If you say just the wrong thing, he has a much lower standard of proof against you than a public figure. Your claims that he is a "public face" or whatever are really not going to mean anything. You do what you want, but I'm telling you these are not public figures, and you put one foot out of line and someone decides they don't like it, you don't have a lot of recourse. I suggest that you stick with public people who have created executive bios for themselves. There is plenty of fodder there.
Originally Posted By wdhatter I hate to jump in on this discussion, but I have to say one thing to defend Dan...he is not the person responsible for how Merchandise has become so bad the past couple of years. He has been in the GM of Merchandise role very briefly. He inherited those problems (which, by the way, stem from higher executives than the GM. So gripes about Merch. should be directed to higher ups from years back.) Dan is so new, in fact, to his role as the GM of Merch. that he admits to using a "cheat" sheet of facts when he talks to Cast about that department. So in short, he is not responsible for the downfall of Merchandise (I agree with all of you on its downfall!) It started many years ago when he had nothing to do with Merch. And yes, he is a very nice person, and I feel that he is a great leader.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Interesting that someone with "no desire" to run theme parks feels overly qualified to tell people exactly how they should do it?>> I know. This is a Disney fan site. So unusual for folks to discuss ways the product can be improved. << Kind of like Dick. If Phil were to come down with the Asian flu after realizing how much better TDL is, Dan would be in charge. >> <<It's also interesting to note that the use of people's names in a familiar manner such as this to indicate you have a personal relationship with these people even though you don't is a well-documented symptom of a psychological disorder related to stalking behavior. It's common for people who desire to have a relationship with others that they cannot possibly have a relationship with to use familiar names and detailed personal information to elicit feelings of belonging to a group from which they are excluded.>> You know I really just want to call you a moron and be done with it because, not that it really matters, but I have very little regard for anything you write. I use people's first names because well ... that's their names. If you think I wish to be part of the magical circle of the MK leadership team you are severly delusional. Seriously. Go get help instead of telling people they have problems because they dare name WDW managers on a Disney fan site. (now I need to run ... a bunch of us are TPing Erin's estate tonight!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well, see, no, they aren't. Unless they have done something like put out a publicity packet on themselves, they are private individuals. And if you are not careful, you can get into a bit of hot water by what you say over them.>> And what exactly have I said about the man other than he was promoted into this position ... something that regularly gets reported on on this very site? I have said nothing about the man personally because I don't know him, although I have met his father. I have said that while in charge of MK merchandise, the product slipped greatly in quality ... again, my opinion. I'm sorry, Jon, but you're really picking wings off of flies here. "And knowing a name or a work phone number is in no sane, rational way the same as stalking someone." <<Actually, it can be.>> That is crazy. Really. I don't know how else to respond to it. To know someone's name or work phone number at a public hospitality company is stalking. I know we live in strange times, but that's ... crazy. "By your reasoning the only person at Disney who should ever be discussed is Bob Iger." <<Other individuals have held themselves out as public figures from the company, as well, such as Tony Baxter. If they have done no such thing, they are private parties.>> OK, well every WDW exec I can think of has been in mainstream media in Florida at the very least, many nationally and some internationally. I guess that means they aren't private parties. Even the man in question here has been written about in the O-Sentinel (and possibly elsewhere). "The man in question here is the No. 2 executive in charge" <<It doesn't matter. That's a mid level manager in a corporation of this size, and as such a private person, unless, again, he has done something which would change his status.>> Actually, you're wrong. The No. 2 exec at the MK isn't a mid-level manager. That might be the head of Fantasyland food and beverage. "his professional decisions can, will and should be examined." <<And this is where you can run into trouble. Specifically, if you state things that could cause him to either lose his job, or weaken his ability to get another job, that's an issue.>> Oh come now, Jon, you must realize that these sites are complete jokes and no one inside Disney or in any serious position in the REAL world takes them seriously in the least. That would be like saying Al Lutz has credibility. "Same as if someone questions an exec from Sprint about their business policies" <<Yes, it would be. Which is also not a good thing to do because that also can get people into trouble. >> I'll take my chances. FWIW, every company I listed above I have been in contact with their execs at one time or other ... I even actually got a phone call from the CEO of Sprint when I dropped him a line after dropping his service. His attitude and caring impressed me so much that he's got a customer for life, so long as he's there. "The position listed in this thread is not listed on the public relations website for WDW -- which does list bios and background on a number of executives." <<If that is true, then this is not a public person in any way, and is a private individual. If you say just the wrong thing, he has a much lower standard of proof against you than a public figure. Your claims that he is a "public face" or whatever are really not going to mean anything. You do what you want, but I'm telling you these are not public figures, and you put one foot out of line and someone decides they don't like it, you don't have a lot of recourse. I suggest that you stick with public people who have created executive bios for themselves. There is plenty of fodder there. >> No. 1, I am not the least bit concerned with Disney management (or their trolls here). They know exactly who I am and how to reach me. Just like they do for anyone else here they deem significant. No. 2, I do stick with people who are at the executive level. Not because I think I am under any legal obligation to. But I do so because why would I want to discuss some low level employee by name? What would the purpose be? ... And I really need to run or I am going to miss going thru a certain WDW VP's trash ... on Friday nights he throws all his old fetish porm mags out and I really want to get my hands on them!
