Originally Posted By wahooskipper 15 mph was mentioned in other places. But, 15 mph vs a stationary, fiberglass object if fast enough to do some serious damage.
Originally Posted By Mr X I think DAR was asking about top speed, which I believe is a heck of lot faster than 15mph (a driver on the Epcot beam once told me 45mph, but I have no idea if that's accurate or not).
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Aha...ok. Sorry, must be 15mph was the likely speed in this instance. One thing I haven't heard mentioned which I was thinking about: Why was the spur line set up the way it is? It seems to me that they could have set it up so that a transfer track was positioned just outside the TTC station so that the trains would veer to the left onto the MK Express Line. This would allow that switch to be made while the train was going forward. It would have also required less linear feet of track. There must be a reasonable explanation but I can't come up with it.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Open casinos in the hotels and use the profits to extend the WDW monorail EVERYWHERE!!>> I"m sure Disney has already thought of that. Afterall don't they have casinos on their ships?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Cedar Fair (owners of Cedar Point and a host of other regional amusement parks) has kept casinos on the backburner of their "idea bin" as well. Ohio has considered casino gambling several times in the past number of years and Cedar Fair has lobbied to be on the list for consideration. I'm not sure Cedar Fair really WANTS gaming but, if it is legalized then they do not want to be left out of the conversation. You can make the argument that most amusement parks are already in the gambling business with their midway games.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper But, I don't think Disney has casinos on their ships. I haven't been on one but I thought I read that they used the traditional "casino" space for theatres and other amenities.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Why was the spur line set up the way it is? It seems to me that they could have set it up so that a transfer track was positioned just outside the TTC station so that the trains would veer to the left onto the MK Express Line. This would allow that switch to be made while the train was going forward. >> Either way you slice it, the monorail would have to traverse the track in reverse at some point to make the switch. If they built the switch the way you describe, the monorail could join the express line while moving forward but would have to reverse to make the switch to the EPCOT line. I do think that the spur line could have been conceived in a more linear route that would eliminate driving along a blind curve from one end of the spur to the other.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom >>>>> Or maybe they're just giving the drivers the opportunity to focus on the driving without any distractions, particularly at such a short time after the accident <<<<< I think one of the outcomes of the investigations will be that OSHA is going to tell Disney they can not allow guests to ride in the front of the monorails for two reasons, 1) The front of the monorails are not structurally sound in collisions and 2) so that the Pilots will not be distracted. I have already posted that I believe the front of the monorails are structurally sound in a collision. But, if your going to say you don't want the pilots distracted then what does that mean when it comes to the Pilots on any of the boats on Disney property? Guests are not going to be permitted to speak so the pilots on the pantoon boats between Port Oreans, Old Key West, Saratoga Spring and Downtown Disney anymore? Remember the boats actually can collide, people actually can fall off a boat, boats actually can capsize and sink ( one of the boats going between Epcot and MGM actually did sink with guests on board once. Of course everyone was able to get out of the boat with only wet shoes, I know because I spoke the CM that was piloting the boat at the time. I would think that Piloting any of the water craft on Disney would be far more challenging and requiring far more care and attention than Piloting any monorail. After all people are not falling out of monorails, monorails aren't likely to collide, capsize or sink. So I don't buy the "distraction" excuse.
Originally Posted By DAR If Disney added a casino it would certainly bring in more jobs and added revenue. But would they beholden to any of the Indian tribes down there?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << So I don't buy the "distraction" excuse. >> It's an emotional distraction in the immediate aftermath of this accident. As a driver, do you want to have to talk about the accident and your dead co-worker with hundreds of guests over and over again throughout the course of your shift? I expect guests will be allowed in the front of the monorails again in due time.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<To be fair, the monorail at Tokyo Disney was built as part of the TDS expansion. The Walt Disney World monorail was very modern in its heyday.>> And despite the WDW monorail systems flaws ( apparently it is very dependant on human observation and interaction) its still a way cool monorail system.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<>>As for the no-one in the front cab- That was also "policy" after 9/11.<< That must have been only in effect for a short time as I have a picture of us in the front in November.>> Beamerdog thats because you are such a holsome and inocent looking person, not like me... I"m on the Federal Do Not Fly List.
Originally Posted By ImaginingDisney001 >>>>> (a driver on the Epcot beam once told me 45mph, but I have no idea if that's accurate or not). <<<< The monorails are manufactured to do a top speed of 70mph, they have been governed down to keep speeds lower. I was told that top speed was 35 but that could have changed. >>>>> Why was the spur line set up the way it is? It seems to me that they could have set it up so that a transfer track was positioned just outside the TTC station so that the trains would veer to the left onto the MK Express Line. This would allow that switch to be made while the train was going forward <<<<< Obviously costs would be a concern but also space availability. That would have put the switch over the TTC, right where the guests are walking. The switch platforms are not all that attractive so they try to hide them. >>>>> Open casinos in the hotels and use the profits to extend the WDW monorail EVERYWHERE <<<<< Disney does not feel a gambling facility fits in with the "fAMILY" envirionment of the resort. That is why they have resisted placing casinos on the cruise ships. The trains should never be moved in reverse without another pilot in the rear nose cab. There is no visual advantage for the driver way up front. That is why these trains are a safety risk if they try to run them in reverse and there are no cameras for the driver. You must always have a person with a visual view of where the train is going, otherwise you are drawing straws of when disaster will strike. With Disney "Ties" counting beans and cutting personnel, safety will be affected and as we know, the MaPo is only in effect when the train is running the track normally, and is bypassed ( a very dangerous time ) when moving the train in reverse. As I have said, if they can build cruise ships, they can put a $100 cam in a $10,000,000 monorail instead of running them blind. ID
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Disney does not feel a gambling facility fits in with the "fAMILY" envirionment of the resort.*** And yet a Pleasure Island filled with booze joints fits just fine. ;p I think gambling on the ships would be fun! I'd love to see "lounge lizard Mickey" stroll up and root for my streak on the craps table. ;D
Originally Posted By Mr X When did "Ties" (with quotes) become the operative? I'd always go with "suits". It works, it fits, and that's exactly who they are (sharp pencil boys works okay too).
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<It's an emotional distraction in the immediate aftermath of this accident. As a driver, do you want to have to talk about the accident and your dead co-worker with hundreds of guests over and over again throughout the course of your shift?>> I read em's post after writing my post. And althought I agree with that statement right now as everyone involved in the WDW monorail system is under Federal scrutiny. I still think its not a valid statement that the mere prescence of Guests in the cab of a monorail creates a distraction. Again I think part of the fallout of the investigation will be that OSHA is going to tell Disney they can not allow guests in the front cab of the monorails as 1) the cabs are not structurally sound in a collision and 2) that guests are a distraction. Getting back to your statement: Disney hasn't mentioned that their motivation for this decision was concern that guest interaction would create an "emotional" distraction for the monorail Pilots. <<As a driver, do you want to have to talk about the accident and your dead co-worker with hundreds of guests over and over again throughout the course of your shift?>> As a Professional Social Worker I can assure you that its good for people to talk about tragic events. Denying tragedys and not being permitted to talk about them is far more psychologically traumatizing. I'm sure the Disney has cleansed the area, put the offending damaged monorails away from curious eyes and told all monorail staff not to speak to anyone. Nothing to see here, nothing ever bad happens in WDW. By the way is this the first official recorded death on WDW Property?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << As a Professional Social Worker I can assure you that its good for people to talk about tragic events. Denying tragedys and not being permitted to talk about them is far more psychologically traumatizing. >> You think talking about it over and over again with uninformed tourists from (you name the state) is healthy? I've watched tourists engage in completely distasteful and inappropriate conversations with cast members working the popcorn cart -- I wouldn't exactly want those folks riding in the front of the monorail right now.
Originally Posted By ImaginingDisney001 >>>> And yet a Pleasure Island filled with booze joints fits just fine. ;p <<<<< Pleasure Island was not designed to operate as a Childrens amusement park. It is a more Adult envirionment. Of course, with the closing of all the clubs, ( you can bet the "TIES" are looking at MONEY and not the experience ), the evironment will change but I hardly think that kids ( family ) would be interested in shoping at Pleasure Island. ID
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I suppose you can make the argument that bus drivers have more of a chance to be distracted than monorail drivers and bus drivers have to make FAR more decisions minute by minute than do monorail drivers. So, from that point of view the "passengers not in the front cab" makes less sense.
Originally Posted By ImaginingDisney001 >>>> So, from that point of view the "passengers not in the front cab" makes less sense. <<<< The BUs driver is constantly talking to guests, destinations, resort information, bus stop areas ( FW ). I don't see the difference between guests in front of the monorail or riding in the bus. The bus has a flat nose so if it hits something, the guests are going to fly forward, possibly out the window. I just think the "TIES" are making a PR decision. ID
