Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< And the Monorail pilots don't need to go through the inevitable, repeated 'interrogation'. >>> This is not a good reason to ban guests from the pilot's cabin. Pilots can easily be trained to respond to say politely but firmly "There's an ongoing investigation, so I'm sorry I can't discuss the matter." People will understand that, and it will prevent the pilots from having to rehash it over and over.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< ***Disney does not feel a gambling facility fits in with the "fAMILY" envirionment of the resort.*** And yet a Pleasure Island filled with booze joints fits just fine. ;p >>> Let alone an attraction that features drunken pirates playing with guns.
Originally Posted By ImaginingDisney001 <<< And the Monorail pilots don't need to go through the inevitable, repeated 'interrogation'. >>> There is no interrogation. Disney polity would squelch that. If a guest asks, the CM tells them they cannot talk about it. Period. end of conversation. ID
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Guests were also barred from the front after the fire in 1985. I have thought several times that this tragedy could have been even worse if there were guests up front. My guess is Disney has thought of that too.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << If a guest asks, the CM tells them they cannot talk about it. Period. end of conversation. >> But the CM still has to think about the subject because the guests brought it up. I'm sure they'll ponder it enough as it is without having others repeatedly introducing the subject throughout the day. It's not really about talking with guests, it's about peace of mind for the pilots for the immediate period after this accident. Again, I expect guests will be allowed in the cabs again before too long.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Do you think this means they won't allow guests to ride in the front anymore? Imagine if there had been a family in the front of that train! >>> Think of the children!
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones You are assuming that all cast members wouldn't want to talk about it. I would talk about it anytime.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << You are assuming that all cast members wouldn't want to talk about it. I would talk about it anytime. >> No. I'm assuming that it's not healthy to be reminded about it hundreds of times during the day while you're doing your job. It has nothing to do with talking about it.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones You're assuming that hundreds of people are going to ask about it every day. I really doubt it would be that much.
Originally Posted By brotherdave Wasn't there a guest who died on Splash Mountain after exiting his log, then trying to cross the water channel only to be hit by an oncoming log? I think that happened in the late 90s/early 00s if I'm not mistaken...
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< A few months ago an unarmed man was shot in the back at a BART station in the East Bay Area. Luckily for the family of the victim multiple passengers were filming with their cell phone cameras. ... Without a tape, would the public outcry be as great? >>> Not only would there not be an outcry, the case almost certainly would have been closed as reasonable use of force against someone that was resisting arrest and reaching for something underneath them. I think it's very unlikely that any charges would have been filed against the officer in the absence of the video.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Yes, he told friends he was sick and was trying to exit the log to find an emergency exit. He fell and was struck by another log. November 2000
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The propeller incident was mid to late 80s I believe. No "links" back then that I can give to you. Also had a woman die in the early 90s who was run over by a parking lot tram. Son dropped something and jumped out. He cleared the tram but she, worrying about him, jumped out too and did not.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< All these problems caused the city to not want to invest in any expansion and required the monorail system to run without incedent before they wanted to be talked to about any expansion. >>> IIRC, the Las Vegas Monorail System was build with no public money (entirely with revenue bonds) and it exists entirely outside the city limits of Las Vegas.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Well, I'm caught up with the thread now. I had been ignoring the issue online since it happened until now, other than to get a brief description of what happened. Any, there have been lots of interesting things said so far. Sport Goofy said in #124: <<< I would have to disagree. There is a burden on the driver of either monorail to be observant for all obstacles in the path of the monorail, and the environment surrounding the monorail. At anytime during this incident the driver of the Pink monorail could have 1) noticed that they did not make the switch to the spur track as the switch appeared on the left side of the cabin, 3) noticed the spur traick on the left side of the cabin as the train maneuvered in its turn, 3) noticed they were approaching the wrong side of the monorail station, or 4) noticed the very prominent strobe light on the cab of the Purple monorail in the rear view mirror as the two trains approached one another. Observations like these are the primary reason why you keep humans in the loop on a system like this. That is the main responsibility of having a person in the loop -- to observe abnormalities and make decisions in the event of system failures or other errors. >>> I think this is the best observation so far. Although there are normal safety systems in place (MAPO not being relevant in this case for reasons already discussed), including hopefully radio confirmation by the driver that the switch is in the proper position, the driver has to be the one with the primary and ultimate responsibility for operating their train in a safe fashion. They're the only ones "on the scene" so to speak, and have the eyes and ears to notice the usual and the unusual. Here's the main point I want to make: Sport Goofy mentioned several opportunities that the Pink driver had to notice that they were on the wrong beam. But, other than the general notion that the pilot should be paying attention and have situational awareness at all times, was there a specific safety rule or procedure in place to prevent this accident from happening? What I'm getting at is that it's a pretty basic and easily-foreseeable issue with the WDW monorail system that if a monorail is traveling on the wrong beam, there's a good chance that it's going to hit something eventually. Since the only way this can happen is in the case where a beam switch is in the wrong position (that is, a position different than the driver assumes it to be), it would seem to me that there should be a very specific procedure in place to detect this failure soon after it happens. For example, rather than the general situational awareness opportunities that Sport Goofy pointed out, is there a specific point at which the driver is supposed to affirmatively verify that they made the switch properly? One way to do this would be to visually verify that they were on the right beam after the pilot's cabin clears the switch, either by looking down at the beam, or verifying a visual sign along the track. However it's done, what's important is that the pilot take a specific step at a specific point in time to verify that they are on the correct beam before proceeding into potentially dangerous territory should they be on the wrong beam, and that they get in the habit of doing it each and every time. Is there such a procedure in place?
Originally Posted By mperry From a safety and liability stand point I will understand if Disney stops this pritice for good. I'm a Disney fanatic however at the end of the day it's a business. They know whats best for the cast and guest at this time. Just think if we had a family in the front cab last Sunday Morning,The media would rip WDW apart. And maybe even shut the park down.When you process and transport the number of guest that WDW does daily safety should be the first concern.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***By the way is this the first official recorded death on WDW Property? Would any current or former CM care to answer the question, if this is the first "official" death on WDW Property? We all know that Disney has a history of denying and supressing fatal occurances on their property.*** "we all know" no such thing. You're just spouting an urban legend as fact. People die at DisneyWorld ALL THE TIME, just think about the population of the place for a second and you'll realize how silly it is to imagine that nobody dies there (and no, when an old person bites the dust overnight in one of the hotels, they don't cart away the corpse and refuse to "declare death" until off property...again, think of how urban legandish this is...of course the coroner is called in and the person is declared on site). Plenty of accidental deaths too, mostly from car wrecks I would imagine (I've seen a few ghastly ones myself...lots of bad drivers around the property).
Originally Posted By sjhym33 The driver of Pink should have known they were on the wrong beam, even in reverse. I had made that beam change many times when I was in monorails and many times at night and there is a difference in the way the beam curves that should alert you that your traveling on the wrong beam. And the driver should have been aware as they backed over the switch itself that the switch was incorrectly aligned and they were on the wrong beam. At that point they should have stopped the train and call Monorail Base. My gut tells me there is more going on then we currently know. Not sure what that might be as of yet. I have several questions about how the spur line was not moved and how no one realized it. One of the things that happens when the spur line is engaged (or at least used to) is the power goes off in both TTC stations when the beam is moving. Did that happen and the spur didnt move? Did that not happen at all and no one noticed? I am also curious on what Purples position was during the change. Was he travelling along the EPCOT beam and cleared into Concourse because he had green MAPO lights? Or was he holding outside the station and was cleared in by radio by Monorail Base? I was in monorails a long time ago but I distinctly remember that maitenance had to drive to TTC to do the actual movement of the spur beam. I gather that was no longer the case, but I read somewhere that there was a camera out there? If that is the case, did no one check to make sure the spur line was moved properly? Did maintenance misunderstand and think the train was going from TTC to Concourse? What about the radio calls. When maitenance called base and said that the spur line had been moved the procedure used to be that base would call the train and clear them into Monorail Base by name and driver repeated the command. Tha ensures that everyone on the system understands what that train is doing. There are a lot of gaps that are perplexing to me. I guess time may eventually give us some of those answers.
Originally Posted By sharpc <<Did maintenance misunderstand and think the train was going from TTC to Concourse?>> Interesting thought, but it makes no sense for the beam to even need to be moved if the train was already on the line to go to the Monorail barn.
