Originally Posted By wonderingalice RMM , I was thinking the same thing... With ALL of the different emergency systems in place in the attractions, wouldn't that be a logical assumption? Such sad news to see first this morning (I went to CNN upon firing up the computer.)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Big Thunder and the Columbia showed that maintenance cuts could be a killer, litterly. >> Neither of those accidents could really be contributed in an direct way to maintenance cuts. In the Big Thunder accident, a cast member unfamiliar with maintenance procedures placed a train that was tagged out of service into service. The train was being maintained as it was supposed to be, but human error led it to be placed into service before maintenance was complete. The Columbia incident was due to failure of a mooring cleat that was not part of any scheduled maintenance plan -- you can't cut maintenance on something where maintenance was never previously scheduled. All of these incidents are unfortunate, but I think people who have no knowledge of how maintenance organizations operate are quick to judge failures on maintenance lapses when they are often just the consequence of operating a system that is subject to any number of failures on a repeated basis. A regimented maintenance program can only accomplish so much.
Originally Posted By jkayjs I can tell you from years of experience that many accidents (especially where it appears there was no attempt to brake on the part of one of those involved)is due to some catastrophic medical event like a heart attack. I'm not saying that this will be the case here but I can tell you it was my 1st thought when I read this. No matter what your opinion of Disney, things like public transit are regulated by outside agencies. Accidents happen as sad as that fact is. This is little comfort I know esp to the family & friends of the victim but it is no less true. This immediate reaction to sue is disconcerting at best. If indeed Disney is culpable they should be held responsible of course. It worries me that innocent till proven guilty is a concept few embrace anymore.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer Unbelievable and sooo sad. I never really think of the Monorail as being dangerous but I guess anything can happen.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad I wonder if maybe a system failed and didn't alert the driver who then cruised on business as usual. We often become dependent on technology and after a while take it for granted that it will do it's job. Like RMM I would have assumed that there would have beeen an automated system to prevent any 2 trains from getting closer than a minimum set distance. Prayers go out to the driver and their family.
Originally Posted By Labuda To address vbdad: " is there a dead man's brake type system if something happened to a driver ? The location of the accident tends to lead me to a driver that either fell asleep, had some kind of physical distress etc. - " From what I recall learning when I rode in the cab with Chrisrails, the monorail pilot MUST keep his or her hand on the throttle at all times in order to keep the monorail moving. That's part of why I suspect that maybe there was an older driver that could have had a heart attack or something like that... I certainly hope this isn't he result of budget crunching.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 There are only two ways this could have happened. Either the safety system failed or the driver overode the system. The WDW monorails have a dead man brake system so if something happens to the driver the train will stop. Also the trains and beams have a system called MAPO (named after Mary Poppins) in which the beams and the monorails talk to each other. When a train gets within a certain (VERY safe) distance the driver gets a signal that tells them there is a train ahead. IF the driver ignores that signal the system will automatically shut the train down (again a VERY safe distance) from the train ahead. The driver can override the system. However, the overall system is based on visual contact. It is the drivers reponsibility to know where the train ahead of them is. Considering it it the EPCOT system the driver easily has visual contact with the train ahead if they are looking. Entering EPCOT you can see the train in the station as you pass and again as you come around Spaceship Earth. At TTC, you can see the monorail ahead as soon as you make the last turn out of the trees as you go over the MK Parking lot. Without any inside knowledge...just speculation...the driver had to be travelling very fast to hit the monorail ahead without seeing it. Even if the MAPO system failed you could easily see and stop a monorail in plenty of time to avoid a tragic accident. My first job at Disney was in monorails.
Originally Posted By MagicalNezumi Video footage taken right after the collision is available here: <a href="http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19954891/detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.clickorlando.com/ne...ail.html</a>
Originally Posted By jkayjs Unfortunately "dead man" systems are dependent on the individual relaxing their grip/foot on the system. Any event that impairs an individuals cognitive process can result in not responding to normal safeguards & sometimes taking an opposite maneuver. I know it's easy to be an armchair quarterback but lets wait & see. My thoughts are with his family, friends & fellow CM esp those that witnessed this terrible event.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 For the driver to override the system it would have to be a very conscious act. It requires holding down a swith while driving with your other hand. It is a very sad situation.
Originally Posted By deephil Our thoughts are with the CM's family must be very distressing time for them
Originally Posted By vbdad55 DVC facebook group just sent out a link to a video taken right after the accident <a href="http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=100093812359&h=y3Lvn&u=0FJIl&ref=nf" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/ext/sh...l&ref=nf</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I can tell you from years of experience that many accidents (especially where it appears there was no attempt to brake on the part of one of those involved)is due to some catastrophic medical event like a heart attack. I'm not saying that this will be the case here but I can tell you it was my 1st thought when I read this.............. This immediate reaction to sue is disconcerting at best. If indeed Disney is culpable they should be held responsible of course. It worries me that innocent till proven guilty is a concept few embrace anymore. < great post J - my first thought was the same thing - a physical issue that revented all above from working - nothing is foolproof. Also I agree - the first thought these days is Sue sue sue - which is why the courts are jammed...we pay outrageous insurance rates on everything, family MD's being forced out of practice etc... so that someone may capitalize on tragedies and accidents. If someone is proven to be truly negligent - then by all means this may be warranted - but for too many these days it is the first thought -
Originally Posted By deephil I got the DVC facebook link which alerted me to this I must say I am glad the castmember told them to stop filming it is not the sort of thing that should be filmed there are friends and family involved show some respect for those who died or were injured and their families.
Originally Posted By ImTempest "Must...shove hand...into...deep pockets...at every...opportunity..." Shame on you. Let's sorrow for the man's family first, shall we? Yes, selfishly I want to know what happened because my family rides the Monorail. But like others that have posted, I think it may have been a medical condition, and we'll just have to wait and see.
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie If the monorail runs off the same MaPo system as the trains then I'm even more curious as to what happened. The driver would have had to somehow overridden the MaPo system to prevent the auto emergency stop, not seen any visual clues that another monorail was ahead, maintained controls to not trigger the deadhead, plus it seems to me that he entered the station at a pretty high speed without breaking to cause the damage that occured.
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie And yes I am VERY sorry for this man's family and their loss. That does not however stop my mind from pondering this perplexing situation.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 nor should it - I am concerned also since my family will be there in a few weeks -- but I also see no need to conjure up swarms of attorneys at the first sign of an opening I want them to take as long as they need to determine why...interesting - since this is a 'transit' system - would the NTSB be involved ?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I can't believe some are so quick to jump on Disney and blame them for the accident. The fact is that at times technology fails, and maintenance has nothing to do with it. The recent Metro accident in DC that killed 9 people should have been prevented by safety systems in place but was not. Sensors can fail; computers can malfunction. It happens very rarely and these systems prevent many, many more accidents than they cause. My GUESS is that it was the failure of a safety system that caused the accident... a failure having NOTHING TO DO with substandard maintenance.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Rode both trains involved just maybe a few hours prior ... have no idea how this could happen beyond what has been stated. There are safeguards. You likely had a total failure of them combined with CM error (either accidentally or, yes as horrible a thought, on purpose). The only info according to a report on WFTV just two minutes ago was the guy was 21-years old ... no one else was injured. And Disney cares the utmost for the safety of its guests and cast. And that the rails will be closed today ... didn't mention whether this will just be the EPCOT line. Also, they're going to have two trains down for the foreseeable future when they get the OK to reopen, obviously. I really wonder what the deal was here ... much like the Air France jet ... a whole lot of things had to go wrong at the same time because this is so extraordinary a circumstance that it defies belief. My Dad woke me up to the news and my reaction was just total shock and sadness as the rails are one of my favorite things at WDW ... but I will say I have heard rumblings of safety issues in the past from people who have worked them ... no idea here ... just tragic.
