Originally Posted By leobloom I don't think there's anything wrong with the footage. It could possibly be useful to an investigation of what happened. It's been interesting to see how many Disney fans seem to think there is something unethical about that footage. I, however, don't think the guest had to comply with the CM's request to stop filming. Can you imagine the NY resuce workers telling people not to film the Twin Towers on 9/11. But the rules are different at Disney, right?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Can you imagine the NY resuce workers telling people not to film the Twin Towers on 9/11." They, and rightfully so, had bigger things to worry about than journalists, both professional and amateur. "But the rules are different at Disney, right? " Disney had every right to tell the man to leave. The cast member had no right to tell him to stop filming. And what does, "Get out of here?" actually mean. Does it mean leave just the station? Could the man have filmed from the ground? Does it mean to leave WDW completely? Is he banned for the night or permanently? Can he go back and film the day after atmosphere around the transportation center or is that unethical too?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I, however, don't think the guest had to comply with the CM's request to stop filming.*** Of course they did. They were on private property, after all (so your WTC reference doesn't apply).
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones He absolutely DID NOT have to comply with the request to stop filming. He did however have to comply with the request to leave. Otherwise he would be guilty of trespassing.
Originally Posted By sharpc I see no reason for the person not to stop filming. The only real thing that needed to be filmed was the picture of the initial impact. Afterwards, if the cast member felt that he would not be able to perform a rescue operation as well with the filming going on, then it is fine for the cast member to have requested for the person to stop filming.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***He absolutely DID NOT have to comply with the request to stop filming. He did however have to comply with the request to leave*** Now you're just splitting hairs. Okay then, a customer must comply with an employee request or they may be asked to leave. (I really don't see the difference..either way you have to stop)
Originally Posted By leobloom Perhaps the photographer didn't have the right to film, since it was private property. Venues can request that people not record concerts, for instance... But I'm not sure what Disney could have done about it if he had not complied, short of having security remove him. Would Disney have had the right to confiscate/erase the film/media card?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Would Disney have had the right to confiscate/erase the film/media card?" Absolutely not. Not even the police can force you to erase your film. They can arrest you, but they will release you without filing charges. So it's a bullying tactic that comes down to you weighing your rights and the inconvenience of not getting arrested for no reason. The only person who can tell you to erase your film is a judge.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Okay then, a customer must comply with an employee request or they may be asked to leave." Right. It's an important distinction though, because you are legally allowed to continue filming as you are leaving. And once you leave the premises, you can continue shooting your subject as long as you are on public property. Problem in Disney World is, there is no such thing as public property. If this had happened at Disneyland on the beam over Harbor Blvd, there would be much more footage, I guarantee it.
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie >>>Are there no laws about 12-14 hour shifts for transportation drivers?<<< My husband works for the railroad and the rules are 12 hours on and then a mandatory 8 hour rest time. If a crew is in a train in the middle of nowhere and they hit their 12 hours, they are required to stop the train wherever they are and wait for a new crew to be brought in. Working a driver 14 hours is insane. A 12 hour day would be hard enough. Of course whether they were actually working 14 hours is really not confirmed at this time.
Originally Posted By ChiMike This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. My heart goes out to this poor kid. When I heard the news this morning, while not suffering from disbelief, I was filled with a strong mix of anger and sadness.. At this time of night, on this type of holiday schedule, this screams "lack of protocol" to me, lack of attention... Stuff like this simply didn't happen in the past because the importance put on these roles (not just drivers), these machines, this responsibility. Most folks truly breathed, ate, slept, talked, walked - Safety. Courtesy. Show. Efficiency. They took these words seriously because they believed in the track record of doing so. More exactly, they took these words seriously because management took them seriously. Recently these KEYS have basically been relegated to a Human Resources Buzzword - a relic of the past that still "sounds good". I think we've all seen this employee difference in some minor way around property at one time or another. Whatever example one might raise; training, discipline, attentiveness, etc. are all in short supply in relation to past years. On-stage conversations, On-stage texting, On-stage complaining about heat, hours, guests, breaks. Talking shop in front of the guests. In my eyes its much more frequently displayed and a clear indication of the priorities of management and the quality of training. Back to this event and this young man's tragedy. I'm not there anymore so I'm not trying to put myself out there as some expert.. Just that it strikes me that the system broke down because employees (not just drivers) were a) tired b) going through the "motions" sloppily, which through apathetic management, are chalked up as nothing more than commonplace routine c) not paying attention (ready for night to end) d) *BIGGEST ISSUE TO ME* not properly supervised by managers. Managers who are motivated and capable of ensuring 100% operational safety at all hours of the day, not just at 8am. I don't know much about any of this, but I do know enough to say that the system brokedown because of human decision making and the dedication to safe operations AT ALL TIMES. Not only am I horrified by the loss of life, and the potential that was there for a greater loss of life of innocent people & families, but I am heartsick and heartbroken that a company I spent a part of my life with, a company that I at one time thought was so special, continues to operate so incompetently and sickly.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Hey, I wonder if Mel Yorba's family wouldn't have wanted cameras to be rolling when he died...
Originally Posted By Indigo Here's what I just posted on The Disney Blog. It's a summary of accounts from around the web laid out in a way that makes the most sense to me as a frequent theme park visitor, disney theme park fan, and blogger. The earlier story about Monorail Pink backing into the station and hitting Monorail Purple appears to be true. Putting together a number of sources, including this video from a former monorail pilot, we’ve learned that Monorail Pink was in process of transferring from the EPCOT line to the Resort line so it could then head back to the maintenance barn at the end of the night. The pilot in Pink was erroneously told that the switch was on, but it was not. So Pink backed up thinking it was heading toward the open resort line berth in the TTC concourse, but it was really heading toward the occupied EPCOT berth in the TTC. Meanwhile Purple was parked in the TTC berth waiting for Pink to clear the EPCOT line so he could bring one last family from the Magic Kingdom over to EPCOT to find their car. Why the pilot in Purple did not react when Pink came backward down the line to his train we will probably never know. What follows is speculation based on a similar incident that happened at Disneyland. At Disneyland a monorail was given clearance to come out of the barn onto the main Disneyland line, but the switch operator at monorail base was slow to throw the switch. The net result of this Disneyland Monorail accident was a monorail nearly torn in two as the switch between tracks opened underneath it. If a similar thing happened last night, the monorail base operator might have thrown the switch hoping he got it open before Pink reached it, but that act probably also switched off the power to Purple, so it was stuck in station while Pink approached and Pink was traveling at a high enough rate of speed that the collision was unavoidable. Purple was in station loaded with passengers and all doors closed which tells me it was ready to go (or had just arrived, but I don’t see passengers arriving from EPCOT to the TTC at 2oAM when EPCOT closed so much earlier). Obviously Disney will complete their own investigation in partner with the investigating authorities. I do not mean to lay the blame and any one’s feet when I only have some of the facts. So far, these are just the way the signs are pointing.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"But what would America be without happily accepting and making excuses for mediocrity?" 38 years without a fatal accident, and what accidents have happened you can count on one finger, and you want to call that mediocrity? Any transportation system would be proud to have that record. < If this is mediocrity, then we better shut down all airlines immediately - ditto for subways and commuter trains... how many passengers have ridden the monorails safely before this ? as for being 21 - yeah fairly young, I agree-- but yet we let the same age people drive school buses and metro buses -
Originally Posted By retlawfan In response to the BART information: <<A few months ago an unarmed man was shot in the back at a BART station in the East Bay Area. Luckily for the family of the victim multiple passengers were filming with their cell phone cameras. While police confiscated some cameras (they shouldn't have been allowed to do that), footage from multiple angles reached YouTube and showed the officer murdering the man in cold blood. Without a tape, would the public outcry be as great? >> There has been no trial yet. To claim that the officer shot the victim "in cold blood" is jumping to conclusion that is a bit irresponsible. That situation may have been a bit like the WDW monorail accident. Early morning hours of Jan 1, the officers were probably working very long hours, and were tired. He most likely made a terrible mistake and used his gun instead of his tazer while trying to subdue a subject. I am very glad that the video is available as well so the truth will come out in court, but as in the case of the WDW video(although just the aftermath), it really has no place all over Facebook and youtube. There was plenty of outrage over the incident without causing more trouble between the police and the locals for no good reason. We now return you to our previous discussion.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 CNN has a poll up. "Do you worry about your safety when visiting theme parks? Yes 38% 17304 No 62% 27722 Total Votes: 45026 " Hah. The most dangerous thing the average person does is drive a car, and they do that every day. I feel much safer on trains (including the monorail variety) than in any car. << That's why I think it's so ironic that Disney is shutting down the Monorail today and adding busses instead, there is a better chance of a bus accident today than another monorail accident.
Originally Posted By leobloom But has a Disney bus ever caused a guest or CM fatality? Not that I recall, and probably not the death of a CM driver, at any rate. They need to keep the Monorail closed until the investigation is complete and the safety guidelines have been adjusted accordingly.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I'm not saying reopen them, I am just saying there is a far greater chance of someone getting killed on the busses of Disney today than on a monorail, based on facts....
Originally Posted By wahooskipper College Program cast members are employees (though they make less than anyone else at the park) and are treated in the same manner as everyone else when it comes to scheduling. Obviously, they generally get the "grunt" shifts but they wouldn't be "scheduled" for double shifts. They might choose to work a double but it wouldn't be required. I don't know if the monorail is considered a "ride" or a "mass transit" system. I think you can make a pretty good argument that those drivers should have to follow the same rules for rest as do bus drivers, truckers, etc. I feel for the driver of the empty train who unknowingly backed into the other. Certainly not his fault but living with the fact that you killed a person...likely a person he was friendly with...is going to be difficult.
