Monorail In DCA?

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

<< But can't ANY rail system be elevated? If so, I wouldn't call that a strength for monorail systems. >>

The primary strenths for monorail systems are:

1) Small footprint that can be accommodated in urban areas without disrupting other transportation modes or large swaths of real estate.

2) Does not interact with other vehicles at grade, i.e. no wrecks with cars or pedestrians.

3) Very low probability of derailment or other catastrophic failure.

4) Can be operated using driverless and automated networks.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Given the inability to build even one functioning monorail vehicle for Disneyland, I think the impracticality of it becomes apparent.

 

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

More a symptom of the continued erosion of our engineering and manufacturing prowess in N. America than the practicality of a transportation system. They've had functioning monorail vehicles at DL for years.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

I know you like monorail, but they just aren't used for various reasons, some of which I've mentioned.

The best thing they can do is put in a light rail system of some sort that interfaces with the monorail that already exists. That makes it easily expandable and uses off the shelf technology available everywhere. If the city decided it wanted to eventually make a transit system that went other places, it would fit together a whole lot more simply.

 

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

^^
Buses would be a better alternative to light rail. Cheaper and just as effective.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Yes, busses are cheaper.

And they are already there. Last time we were in Anaheim, we noticed tons of them all over the place.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

"Buses would be a better alternative to light rail. Cheaper and just as effective."

Not as effective as a system that runs on a dedicated road or track.

 

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

^^
You can have dedicated bus lanes in the middle of city streets just the same way as trolleys run on their dedicated tracks through cities like San Diego.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

Yep, a system like that is being studied for Van Ness Ave. in San Francisco.

 

Originally Posted By FerretAfros

I'm sure that if they really wanted a Monorail that runs at the street level, they could always redesign the thing to have a smaller gap on either side of the beam. I'm not sure if they could get it as small as a light-rail gap, but they could most likely get it down to an inch or two. They could also put the wires far enough down so that they aren't reachable by people passing by. How do light-rail trains get power? I assume it comes from a rail or something, since they would need pretty beefy batteries otherwise.

Another option that nobody has really mentioned here for street level is doing a suspended monorail. The first monorails ever built hung from a track overhead. This would allow the space under the track to be used by cars and the monorail. Sure, it isn't the Disney monorail we all know and love, but it could be designed to look pretty similar.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2kedqw" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2kedqw</a>

And I know it's crazy to think about, but one of the early designs for Tomorrowland called for an overhead monoral. I can't find an image of it on line right now, but I'll keep looking...

 

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

<< How do light-rail trains get power? >>

Usually from overhead power lines.

 

Originally Posted By trekkeruss

Light rail systems gets power from overhead, through a pantograph.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"Yep, a system like that is being studied for Van Ness Ave. in San Francisco."

Really. That ought to make traffic even more miserable on that street. How are they going to do that without removing a lane in each direction?

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Oh, they do have a dedicated busway in the SFV, don't they? I think I recall seeing something like that. That's what the valley gets instead of a rail system...but it's really the fault of the people living there.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

" they could always redesign the thing to have a smaller gap on either side of the beam"

Something has to go down into the beam and connect with it to make the train run.

It doesn't work.

"How do light-rail trains get power?"

Electrically powered trains generally get power either through a third rail, like BART, which is all grade separated, or through overhead wires, like a typical street grade trolley line or even full size train would have to do.

Busch Gardens in Van Nuys had a suspended monorail system. It would not operate on windy days.

 

Originally Posted By FerretAfros

"Oh, they do have a dedicated busway in the SFV, don't they?"

Yup. It's the "orange" line of the LA Metro system. It works pretty well since it doesn't really have to deal with traffic (it stops everything in intersections before it gets there), but there isn't really that much traffic in that area to begin with. It takes up a huge ammount of space (a lane in each direction, plus wiggle room, and medians on both sides to keep the normal folks out), which really keeps it from being a practical solution in most places. The only real benefit I found to having that instead of a normal bus (I've only been there once) was that I could use the same Metro ticket I used for the train part. Other than that, it was just like being on a regular bus, albeit a little nicer.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

"Really. That ought to make traffic even more miserable on that street. How are they going to do that without removing a lane in each direction?"

Well, the street already has a sizable median that I assume would be removed. I also think that sidewalks would be narrowed and some parking would be lost.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"Well, the street already has a sizable median that I assume would be removed. I also think that sidewalks would be narrowed and some parking would be lost."

Yeah, parking would have to go. Which is fine, SF has too much parking as it is. Um....

That median is not wide enough for a bus lane. One in each direction. It's about 80% of the width you'd need for one bus.

They should run a trolly down geary to the cliff house. That's what is needed.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

Actually Geary is being considered for a dedicated bus lane too.

Take a look:

<a href="http://www.sfcta.org/geary/" target="_blank">http://www.sfcta.org/geary/</a>

<a href="http://www.sfcta.org/vanness/" target="_blank">http://www.sfcta.org/vanness/</a>

 

Originally Posted By bean

the only problem with light rail is safety reasons. Light rails have a much higher safety issue problem because of crossings.

Darkbeer is correct about the proposal that was once looked at. It was scrapped because of cost but who knows it could always be ressurected.

The ticketing system is really not an issue because like Darkbeer said any stop would mostly likely be outside the park but would have a second gate on the south side of DCA.

There are other options though, exits could be set-up so that seperate exit ramps could lead people either outside the park or inside its boundaries. The ramp leading inside the park would require a scan system for ticketing. The problem would be people boarding the monorail trying to exit Disneyland since that stop is in the middle of tomorrowland. There are ways of dealing with that but would most likely confuse quite a bit of people.