Monorail In DCA?

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

So what are you saying? That buses in Anaheim are impractical?

 

Originally Posted By spacejockey

I'm saying that seems like alot of traffic for all of the development planned for the area. Buses are fine but if they are sitting in congestion than there is a problem. Buses should be apart of an intergraded transport system.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

How about a system like the LA Metro called a "Bus Rapid Transit" (BRT).

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B
us_rapid_transit</a>

LA Metro has two types of BRT, the larger project has private Busway Lanes (road) that only buses can drive on.

The route has a small section on public roads, but the majority of it is on the Busway, that does cross public streets, but the buses have transponders that will switch the traffic lights when they get near the crossing.

The large, according style buses have 3 entrances, 2 large set of doors in the middle of each section, and then a door at the front of the bus. The bus is designed for low entrances, which are great for wheelchairs and strollers. The multiple entrances help load and unload the bus quickley, similar to how LRT trains can load. Also, the Metroliner system is an "honor" based system, so no need for everyone to pass by the driver showing tickets and/or purchasing them. Each station has ticket machines, where you can buy your pass prior to boarding. They only allow folks with tickets at the station, and have roving LA Sheriff officers (paid for by MTA) that go to station to inspect tickets, and also board buses at random to check tickets, and issue citations if someone failed to buy a ticket prior to boarding. This really speeds up the boarding process.

Here is a photo of one of the buses.

<a href="http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/gallery/1180296_EdwBL/4/55207685_SV75D/Large" target="_blank">http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/ga
llery/1180296_EdwBL/4/55207685_SV75D/Large</a>

Another system MTA uses in Downtown LA is transponders that help coordinate the bus with traffic lights, basically will keep the green light on longer to let the bus pass thru the intersection.

So what could Anaheim do? Well it would be easy to build Busways at the new Anaheim Transportation system and connect it with the Honda Center and Angel Stadium (using part of the parking lots to build the busways), then either build a Busway as part of the Gene Autry Way expansion, or just have the buses switch to Katella Avenue, where you could either block one lane of traffic each way (maybe just for selected hours of the day), or just let them use the roadway, but with the transponders to help them get thru traffic lights.

But these type of buses are large, easy to load and can adapt to road conditions, since they are not on a fixed rail.

A lot less cost to build, in fact, might be a great system to start now, and then build a LRT system, and stop using the buses when the LRT system is finished.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

This sounds like what is in the SFV.

If you are going to build a separated bus line, then you would probably just build that, and not a bus line and a trolley line. Because much of the work for the trolley line would go into separating the bus line anyway.

Also, if you have a separated bus line, and then build a trolley line, then the trolley line would not be able to be separated, unless you wanted to close down the street, or leave it as one lane each way for a long time.

That is if I understand your question.

The separated bus line is a good solution, so is a trolley line. The trolley line has more of a fun factor. A monorail has more on top of that.

But I am pretty sure they will not build something that is the same as the Monorail ride in Disneyland. That is basically a theme park ride. It is sitting on top of 50 year old technology and is ill suited for a real transit system.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Oh, those sort of double bus things they call metro liners are called trolley busses. I have a license to drive them. There are quite a number of them in San Francisco. They require a lot of training to drive, as they function more like a tractor trailer type of rig than a simple bus.

 

Originally Posted By Mr X

You don't think a newer "real" monorail would work?

I agree, the Disneyland setup is obviously just a theme park ride (DisneyWorld as well, for that matter).

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

If you put in a newer real monorail, then you would still have to put in a connecting transit center anyway. Monorail has a lot of problems as a basic technology for a real transit system.

It does work in a very closed limited system. So, if they want to put in a monorail for funsies, it'd probably be ok. But the main issue with that is expansion and connectivity to other parts of SoCal. If they want to do that.

If they put in a monorail, and it is a success, and they want to expand the system, do you really think they'd put in a monorail all over OC? It's really not good for many reasons pointed out already.

SO if they want to be part of a regional system, they have to put in standardized systems. If they just want to connect up to regional systems, they have to put in transfer stations. That makes a trip much more time consuming. Any extra time on transit is that many fewer people who will want to ride on it.

 

Originally Posted By FerretAfros

Transfers would be nessecary for pretty much any trip on any public transportation, no matter what the system or city. It's pretty rare that you can get on a bus next to where you are right now, and it will take you to where you want to be. As long as the two systems were linked with time schedules and fares and such (so you pay to get on and it's all the same system, regardless of what type of vehicle you're in, similar to the LA Metro with the subway and bus), I don't really think it would matter. Sure, it would be nice to have consistancy, but it really isn't nessecary, as long as the stations and system network are created with it in mind, just like they would be for an all light rail system.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

I think the only possible monorail to get built would be Disney-owned and operated, and going strictly to Disney sites (parks, hotels). The impetus for any change would be the 3rd park, which currently doesn't have a monorail stop anywhere near it. And they would do it for the fun and "cool" factor of it.

A monorail is not likely to be built by Anaheim for a link to sites a few miles away.

And considering that not all of the WDW parks have monorail stops, it's not at all certain Disney would build one to the third gate, either. Presumably they'd have to have some sort of transport, however, and something elevated would be both cooler and avoid the problems and legalities that happen once you touch city streets. Whether it's a monorail, some sort of light rail, or some new type of PM, though, who knows?

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

"How about a system like the LA Metro called a "Bus Rapid Transit" (BRT)."

Yes, we discussed that earlier. I provided links to two systems that are being considered in San Francisco. I think it could work well.

"You don't think a newer "real" monorail would work?"

After riding Las Vegas' new monorail I think the system is too costly with too little return. The thing is just so sluggish and bypasses some of the most important landmarks on the strip. A rapid bus or LTR system would be better for Anaheim in my opinion.

 

Originally Posted By StitchDude

"I think the only possible monorail to get built would be Disney-owned and operated, and going strictly to Disney sites (parks, hotels). The impetus for any change would be the 3rd park, which currently doesn't have a monorail stop anywhere near it. And they would do it for the fun and "cool" factor of it."

I agree, and i think this would be the best thing to do if the third park is ever built. I think that Disney needs to put in a stop inside DCA now.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

How hard would it be to put a stop between Muppets and Monsters. I think it would be pretty easy.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ypf8se" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ypf8se</a>

Or schooch the picture in the link above, over to right before it goes into the grand. There could be stairs off the platform down into the park and a door off the platform straight into the hotel turning it into a monorail resort like at WDW. I know they chose not to do this originally so they could force you to walk through DtD. Enough with the forcing people to walk through the shops. It was ingenious when Walt designed Main Street with the single park entrance funneling everyone through it. But wow how to wear something out. I mean, the thing goes straight through a $300/night resort hotel and doesn't freakin' stop.
'Scuse me boys, I think your greed is showing.

 

Originally Posted By trekkeruss

On the face of it it seems strange that the GCH doesn't have the monorail stop there, but it has it's own DCA entance, and DL is steps away. I also don't think that the DtD stop, which is in the same exact spot as the old DLH station, was placed as an effort to funnel anyone through shops... the majority who get off at the station walk to the DLH, not bak through the stores. So I don't think it's fair to categorize it as greed on Disney's part.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

Wasn't the DtD station there before the shops?

 

Originally Posted By bean

"
Darkbeer
Sat 2/9/2008 7:48a The Las Vegas Monorail has an emergency walkway throughout its route."


thanks darkbeer for the link.


i never remember seeing any evacuation platforms. seems like simple metal walkway along portions of the track. nothing significant like a large platform from what i envisioned that Jovn said might be required.

 

Originally Posted By bean

its basically a ctawalk attached to the beam. Not aignificant enough to rule out a monorail system. It also would not require much more land space.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

I don't think it is the best idea to look to Nevada for safety requirements.

It would depend on local rules. Nevada, I think, has the bare minimum. But does have a platform that goes along the length of the entire track.

 

Originally Posted By p-n-p06

Light rail (aka: MAX) here in Portland, OR is a controversial issue but we keep expanding it. I don't drive so I think it's nice to have (as is our bus system) but many drivers want the money that funds light rail to be spent improving roads instead. Our light rail also experiences some nasty crime in certain sections of the system...and nobody likes or supports the expansion when they are afraid of the possibility of crime. It's too bad because the crimes aren't widespread but it still scares people away. And, yes, it is an expensive system both to build and to maintain, no question about that!

 

Originally Posted By oc_dean

While this has been a fascinating read .. with many excellent points of view ....

My hope is a system where Disney and the city of Anaheim work in tandem with each other .. in creating some sort of system that is OVERHEAD .. that moves as many people as possible.

Anything that is ground level .. only makes the congestion among walkers and cars, and busses, AND other hotel shuttles ...AND anything else on two of the busiest roads in Orange County (Katella and Harbor) WORSE!

We aren't just looking at the next decade here ....... but this area of Anaheim for the next 50 to ONE HUNDRED YEARS!

Better have an ADVANCED system that adequately moves people .. for there's ~ONLY~ 3 gated parks by 2025. Most likely. ...and EVERYTHING else in this congested part of Anaheim.

I just keep flashing on trying to put anything at street level .. and all I can think of is .... a slow crawl!

The future is multi-level transportation corridors in heavily congested cities.

 

Originally Posted By patrickegan

No, no the bus is both fun and exciting! Imagine the delightful and interesting people you’ll meet with the kids. Yes kids you’re right, that gentleman doe’s smell like tinkle!

I can’t think of a nicer way to start a several thousand dollar vacation.