Originally Posted By Lake Nona >>Also, they could start charging for parking at DTD. This I think would be tenable.<< I am so sure that this idea has been tossed around at Team Disney across the street from DTD.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Any extentions of the monorail system to WDW would not be spurs, but new mainlines. << I hope you're right. But to continue the nit-picking, mainline loops are not the only solution. A single line that goes to the end, stops, and then simply reverses direction is also possible. I've seen Disneyland play this trick many times when they're doing some maintenance thing on their beam. The train will leave the Hotel station and travel to the Tomorrowland station. There, it will swap passengers and then reverse direction and go back the way it came. A solution much preferable than just shutting them down altogether for a long refurb time. I've seen them do this trick with two trains on the beam. One train, and then then the next will leave from the Hotel station and go to the Tomorrowland station. Since it's only one beam, the two trains can't pass each other. So the first train has to go past the station for a short distance to wait there until the second train has done it's turnaround.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<I've never had problems transferring with monorails, but buses can be the stuff of nightmares.>>> I can say this from personal experience over several years... NOT TRUE IF ANYONE would consider monorail transfers a nightmare it would be me. Think: 2 adults, 6 kids, ranging from 11 down to 4 months old. Transfers from monorail to monorail would be a no brainer. Just follow the signs and don't try to out run the masses. Yes it may be a nightmare at midnight, with worn out kids, some sleeping some crying, but we don't put ourselves in that situation. The idea of Monorail transfers do not bother me in the least.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Also, they could start charging for parking at DTD. This I think would be tenable. << >> I am so sure that this idea has been tossed around at Team Disney across the street from DTD. << I've no doubt that it's been discussed, probably at length and many, many times. I just don't think it can ever work. Charging for parking would start to drive people away from your retail district and to your competitor's. Unless they could work out some sort of "Magical Parking Validation" solution. You'd pay for parking, but if you actually then go into Downtown Disney and use the attractions, your parking would be comped back to you. But if you instead went on to a park (via bus), you wouldn't. Naaah -- it would still drive people away. Many wouldn't understand this, and simply not go when they think they're going to have to pay for parking. Parking at TGIFriday's is free.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> The idea of Monorail transfers do not bother me in the least. << This reminds me of my one and only international business trip -- a week in downtown Tokyo. My partner and I were there for a week, and we used the local transpo system rather than cabs -- light rails and trains. We would have to transfer several times to get where we were going. In a CROWDED and NOISY train station, with all the signs in Japanese. Talk about getting the adrenaline going in the morning. Yes, transferring monorails WDW is not a big deal at all. PS. Yes, we did make it back.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<mainline loops are not the only solution. A single line that goes to the end, stops, and then simply reverses direction is also possible.>> HIGHLY impractical and utterly implausable that they would build a monorail line that way on purpose. The capacity would be ridiculously small and not worth spending hundreds of millions on.
Originally Posted By SuperDry It would seem to me that if the monorail system was extended past Epcot to go to the other parks and many of the resorts along the way, that much of the bus service could be discontinued. Even if you were at a resort or water park without monorail service, the bus service could be limited to getting you between that location and the nearest monorail station. The number of bus miles could be a small fraction of what it is today.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Hey folks, we just have to face it. More and more and more and more and more people are coming to WDW every year. The problem is, people TYPICALLY want a 4 day vacation. Another park will not make people go 5. So...we are stuck with more and more and more and more people year in and year out trying to cram their butts into the MK one on top of the other on top of the other. Where will it end? *sigh*
Originally Posted By avromark <<Where will it end? *sigh*>> When the middle class citizens run out, or they can't meet minimum staffing levels?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Instead of adding completely new lines, would it be possible to add onto the existing ones? It seems like they could just take out part of the beam on the Epcot line just after the station, and have a turn to the left and it could head over toward MGM and DAK, along with some hotels along the way. On the way back, it could stop on the other side of the Epcot station, and go either over or under the beam and meet back up with the original line. This would eliminate a lot of transfers and make the crowds much easier to control. It might cause more traffic on the Monorails, but they could expand the stations at MK, TTC, and Epcot to hold two trains at a time, so they load faster, or update the system so the trains can run closer together and always have one in the station that is getting more guests. I've heard stories about how the Monorails are always waiting for clearance, but if the space interval is decreased and the system updated with modern computer technology, I'm sure they could design something that would allow more trains in less space, and be even safer.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> HIGHLY impractical and utterly implausable that they would build a monorail line that way on purpose. << Ok, I'll ask. Why? Don't the shuttles at the MCO airport run this way all day? Why are the airport shuttles impractical and utterly implausible?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Because at the airport all the passengers don't leave for one flight in the morning and one flight in the evening, and the distance the airport tram travels is very short, ANd it's not one single track, it's two parallel tracks.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I've heard stories about how the Monorails are always waiting for clearance, >>> This came up a few months ago, and from what I remember, nobody ever explained just what causes these "waiting for traffic clearance" situations on the WDW monorail.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< HIGHLY impractical and utterly implausable that they would build a monorail line that way on purpose. The capacity would be ridiculously small and not worth spending hundreds of millions on. >>> Agreed. Perhaps it's kinda difficult to explain why to someone that doesn't already see it. As you mentioned, the Orlando Airport trams (I won't call them monorails since they don't run on a rail) are different in that there are two tracks, plus their limited distance means that they probably could not add more trains even if there was a circular track instead of two independent runs. The situation at WDW is totally different because the distances are much longer. Plus, it would indeed be braindead to build a monorail system where the normal mode of operation was to board one train, have it pull beyond the station in the opposite direction from the desired direction of travel and wait for another train to unload and load before proceeding to the intended destination.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Instead of adding completely new lines, would it be possible to add onto the existing ones? It seems like they could just take out part of the beam on the Epcot line just after the station, and have a turn to the left and it could head over toward MGM and DAK, along with some hotels along the way. On the way back, it could stop on the other side of the Epcot station, and go either over or under the beam and meet back up with the original line. This would eliminate a lot of transfers and make the crowds much easier to control. It might cause more traffic on the Monorails ... >>> If they did this (turning the Epcot line into something more like a resort-wide line), then a lot of the transportation problems would be solved. Bus traffic could be cut way down. But in order to switch to a model where most guests took the monorail would probably involve making them much higher capacity than they are today, with rolling stock similar to what's in service at TDR and HKDL. Those trains can hold several times as many people as compared to the Mark VI, because the insides are basically full-size subway cars and they are connected into one long continuous cabin. This would be expensive to do, as the trains must be designed so that the wheels are underneath the cabin rather than between them, which means that the floor level is not just above the beam but substantially above it, which would mean either lowering the track or raising the platform at existing stations. But once this was done, they would have an extremely efficient and guest-friendly system. And yes, such a system can handle peak crowds at park closing - it's done every day at TDS where maybe 90%+ of guests use the monorail and the park has 10+ million annual attendance. During peak times trains depart every 3 minutes (and aren't delayed for "traffic clearance"). I don't really have an intuitive sense as to what the economics of such a situation would be compared to the bus system. It would certainly be a large amount of money initially, but over time I'm not sure how it would compare to the busses. It would certainly dramatically improve the guest experience.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> The situation at WDW is totally different because the distances are much longer. << Not from Epcot to BoardWalk to Studios. That's a short run. Check it out on a map. >> it would indeed be braindead to build a monorail system where the normal mode of operation was to board one train, have it pull beyond the station in the opposite direction from the desired direction of travel and wait for another train to unload << You're missing my point. I'm not suggesting that this Disneyland procedure is desirable. It's just something they do when they have to, and because shorter distances are involved there than at WDW. But a run from Epcot to Boardwalk to Studios is short. And perhaps at the Studios end there could be a parallel station beam where an inbound traim could dock, and then the outbound train take off while the inbound is cycling it's load. A single beam solution with two trains sharing it could work. No, it wouldn't much help empty the park at closing. That would not be it's intent. Yes, I realize the shuttles at MCO are two parallel tracks going back and forth, one shuttle coming, one going at the same time. But that's not fully necessary. A single shuttle could do the job if it had to, but at a reduced load capacity rate. There would just be longer delays between runs as the single train made it's way back and forth. If one of their trains quits, that's probably their fallback procedure. No need to shut the whole thing down until the errant train is brought back online. Not a good thing for higher volume times, but an acceptable solution.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> I'm not sure how it would compare to the busses << A short monorail spur from Epcot to Studios thru Boardwark would at least be a new extension, a short run,and one that makes good Epcot and Epcot resort sense.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy QUESTION about the Las Vegas monorail system -- Is that a loop? Or is that a long straight line that goes back and forth on the strip? I honestly don't know.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<A short monorail spur from Epcot to Studios thru Boardwark would at least be a new extension, a short run,and one that makes good Epcot and Epcot resort sense.>>> I totally agree with this, after all the back gate to Epcot is easy walking distance from Boarkwalk and Beach/Yacht Club already. Not only that, the monorail would bring in a LOT more people to shop and eat at the boardwalk. I'm all for this.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< QUESTION about the Las Vegas monorail system -- Is that a loop? Or is that a long straight line that goes back and forth on the strip? I honestly don't know. >>> It's a long (not-so-straight) line that goes up and down the east side of the strip. It operates on two parallel tracks, such that there's a train departing in either direction from each station (except for the terminus stations of course). At least on the south terminus, the southbound train leaves the station empty and continues south, then switches to the other beam and re-enters the station to make its northbound run.
