Originally Posted By leemac <<I have no reason to doubt those figures. Most of those guests filling those deluxe resorts recently have had decidedly pasty white skin! If the economy in the UK tanks as much as the USA's (the reality, not the Wall Street investment bankers and talking heads), those load levels might drop precipitously. And if Disney thinks all those summer/fall reservations are going to happen with $4-5 a gallon gas, that's just not being realistic.>> I should have added my source! Those numbers came from Tom Staggs. He also said that Q3 was looking soften than prior year but Q4 was up - that would probably reinforce your thoughts on foreign tourists making up the numbers. You have to remember that by far the largest audience at WDW is still domestic - Brits are a big contingent but you are only talking 1.5m people annually. Obviously people can cancel reservations but at the moment it seems people are shouldering the extra cost of transport for their vacation experiences.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Yeah ... BUT that's the audience that Jay is trying to lure back with higher end offerings. I don't see the average family that saves for three years for a WDW vacation being interested in adding another $350 a head for a boutique animal experience, no matter how nice.>> The point is not "trying to lure back" as the evidence suggests they were never there originally. It is just good business to go after the demographics that don't frequent your establishment. WDW is always looking at new ways to leverage their resort property. There is also strong evidence that guests at value and modern resorts actually spend similar amounts of discretionary spend to those in deluxe - which means that they are visiting the same full-service restaurants and actually are spending more as a group as the value/moderate resorts are so much bigger. So those folks are already spending a lot of money on the likes of Coral Reef, California Grill, Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique and DisneyQuest.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I think WDW has overextended itself and that's why it must constantly discount its product, something that was almost unheard of in the 1980s.>> I guess we will have to disagree on that one. Revenue from WDW grows every year so there must still be demand for the property. When you are running at 95% occupancy in April (a non-Easter April too) you must be doing something right. It is all about economics and that is why the product became so flexible after 9/11 - Magic Your Way tickets and the multitude of vacation packages that never used to exist. It is about tailoring your offerings to attract as many people as possible. It is easy to shutter property and reduce your overheads at a hotel especially when you rely on casual labor. I'm sure there will be a situation in the future when WDW has to do the same as it did in '01/'02 again - but you can't be cautious and be doom and gloom all the time. If you don't build the inventory you can't benefit during boom time. Remarkably (and most of us are surprised by it) there has been no softening at WDW since the credit crunch. That is nothing short of incredible and shows people still want to vacation. DLR has seen some softening but then a trip to DLR is typically for the day and can be delayed.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The point is not "trying to lure back" as the evidence suggests they were never there originally. It is just good business to go after the demographics that don't frequent your establishment. WDW is always looking at new ways to leverage their resort property.>> I'm not sure what evidence you're speaking of. I can only speak to what I've witnessed anecdotally and what I have been told over the years. I'm also not sure whether it is a good long term business strategy to try and go after every demo, while at the same time having an attitude of scornful disdain for many of your longtime loyal visitors (APers, FLA residents, bleeping purists etc ...) who don't like a lower quality product. I realize it's a give and take. And that running a business like WDW isn't an easy task. But it's not rocket science either. <<There is also strong evidence that guests at value and modern resorts actually spend similar amounts of discretionary spend to those in deluxe - which means that they are visiting the same full-service restaurants and actually are spending more as a group as the value/moderate resorts are so much bigger. So those folks are already spending a lot of money on the likes of Coral Reef, California Grill, Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique and DisneyQuest.>> I'm sure that's true if just for the scales involved.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'm not sure what evidence you're speaking of. I can only speak to what I've witnessed anecdotally and what I have been told over the years.>> Can't share that info I'm afraid. My point is that there is a big demographic that will never go to WDW - has no interest whatsoever - and by adding branded properties to WDW they are increasing the likelihood that people who have brand preference in their hotels of choice will opt to visit at some point. WDW typically doesn't attract a significant number of ABC1s compared to its core guest base which is still predominantly working class (for domestic visitors). For Disney it might be impossible to encourage those people to visit but if you add branded hotels and other non-theme park offerings you are at least trying. The Bonnet Creek golf courses (which underperform compared to the other three) will definitely benefit. A resort in a golf course environment as opposed to a busy bustling family deluxe hotel run by Disney for theme park guests. I'd bet good money that Waldorf, Hilton and Four Seasons guests are less likely to visit the parks than Disney resort guests. And welcome back Spirit - both to LP and from vacation. I gather you have been in the Mother country.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I guess we will have to disagree on that one. Revenue from WDW grows every year so there must still be demand for the property.>> It still doesn't change the fact WDW discounts almost all year now. It didn't in the past. I haven't paid rack rate for a room at WDW since the week DAK opened. And 'finding' those discounts isn't difficult at all. Premium 'brands' aren't known for discounting. <<When you are running at 95% occupancy in April (a non-Easter April too) you must be doing something right.>> True. But they also greatly miscalculated when they'd get their biggest crowds this year. Much of mid-March was quiet to moderate ... that's when they expected the crowds ... Easter. But this year it didn't go like that. Easter was at its earliest in over 100 years and the crowds came in droves in April. They even had to extend hours (and you know how Erin and the gang hate to add to labor costs)because they were just slammed. <<It is all about economics and that is why the product became so flexible after 9/11 - Magic Your Way tickets and the multitude of vacation packages that never used to exist. It is about tailoring your offerings to attract as many people as possible.>> Disney has always tried to do that. Magic Your Way and then adding Dining is designed to Cruise Line the WDW experience. Pure and simple. A matter of fact I'm trying to see if one of my fave Disney consultants is also working for NCL because they just 'pulled a Disney' with raising prices and lowering quality at the same time ... but hey, they only angered likely half the passengers on a transatlantic cruise. <<It is easy to shutter property and reduce your overheads at a hotel especially when you rely on casual labor. I'm sure there will be a situation in the future when WDW has to do the same as it did in '01/'02 again - but you can't be cautious and be doom and gloom all the time. If you don't build the inventory you can't benefit during boom time.>> Yep, but there's also a point where enough is enough and we both know that's not how WDW management thinks. Anyone for Poly or GF DVC? ;-) <<Remarkably (and most of us are surprised by it) there has been no softening at WDW since the credit crunch. That is nothing short of incredible and shows people still want to vacation.>> I'm sure they do, but at some point they can't. I didn't add a week in Paris and DLP to my trip because the dollar is so low. At some point, WDW will get hit. I hope the floor doesn't just drop out from underneath, but since our oilman Prez (promised $4 a gallon gas to the Saudis, so at least he sometimes delivers) seems intent on bankrupting what's left of our middle class ... well, I'd be very nervous if I were sitting in TDO.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'd bet good money that Waldorf, Hilton and Four Seasons guests are less likely to visit the parks than Disney resort guests. >> That's an easy one! But the majority still will visit. There are amazing golf resorts in Florida. If you book into the Four Seasons at WDW, chances are you'll wind up at Epcot. <<And welcome back Spirit - both to LP and from vacation. I gather you have been in the Mother country. >> Yep. And thanks. Too bad you couldn't have joined myself and a fave LPer for a jog around Heathrow! You really must use your influence and get that airport fixed!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By leemac <<Yep. And thanks. Too bad you couldn't have joined myself and a fave LPer for a jog around Heathrow! You really must use your influence and get that airport fixed!!!!!!!!>> I didn't get an invite. Ironic actually as our office is literally a few miles north of the airport. I guess I must be blinded to Heathrow's faults as I really don't mind the place - and I have to use T3 for my United flights. I'd take it over LAX or JFK any day. That said T5 is remarkable - plus it is home to my favorite airline. And I have no influence anywhere. Nada.
Originally Posted By leemac <<A matter of fact I'm trying to see if one of my fave Disney consultants is also working for NCL because they just 'pulled a Disney' with raising prices and lowering quality at the same time ... but hey, they only angered likely half the passengers on a transatlantic cruise.>> A Disney consultant...what is one of those?
Originally Posted By dshyates leemac, are you a consultanteer? Anyway, The whole Kim Possible mountain sounds really lame. Even though I really enjoyed playing the MagiQuest game that is the tech for the Harry Potter game. But I was playing it with my kids. The way MagiQuest works is you buy a wand and are given a quest book. The book has about 20 different quests. The quest consists of about 6 items. You are given riddle-like clues as to what the 6 items you need to find are. You figue out what it is, where it is, then you go find it and zap it with your wand. All the items are conected to a central computer that knows when you have found all the items in a given quest and then are given a bonus round like dueling a dragon (on video like TSM). I am not sure how they will incorporate this into The Wizarding World of HP. My guess is you will need to be familiar with the movies and books to play. The Hogwarts Castle is supposed to be the main game area with different classrooms and dorms to explore. The whole mission mountain sounds fun, but like $10/hr for 2 hours fun, not $300 fun. Man, WDI is killing me. They don't seem to have an original thought left in their head. When did the industry leader become the ultimate rip-off artists? I know MGM was because of Universal. DAK= BGAfrica, Pleasure Island= Church Street Station, DCA= Uni X MM ÷ Knott's. TSM= Buzz X Spidy, Everest is a roller coaster into a snow capped mountain where you encounter a yeti. Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Now DNK= Discovey Cove meets MagiQuest. What I'm seeing here are 2 boutique parks. One high end animal encounter park. low key, gourmet meals, night vision goggle trips into the savannah, fling a cabbage at a hippo kind of park. and the other being a way less expensive Adventure Center with the rock climbing, zip lines and such. I know Disney really wants a zip line because they are all the rage in the adventure/corporate retreat circles, but zip lines are almost always in mountainous areas where you get a nice long, fast flight through the trees, over rivers, in front of waterfalls etc. FL is so flat they would have to build the whole thing. And the flight would still be short. I want Disney to build this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfM3x3yoRwA&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros The more I hear about either idea (the Xteme! activities one or the dinner with the hippos one) the less interested I become. Sure, those things would be neat, but they just seem to be thing type of thing that I can get a better experience at the real place, for a lower cost. Now, if the zip line was the same system that Tinkerbell uses to fly on during Remember, then maybe we can talk. That looks like it would be so much fun! I don't know if I'd pay $300 for it, but at least $150 to do it while they launch fireworks at you!
Originally Posted By dshyates "Now, if the zip line was the same system that Tinkerbell uses to fly on during Remember, then maybe we can talk. That looks like it would be so much fun! I don't know if I'd pay $300 for it, but at least $150 to do it while they launch fireworks at you!" Pixie Boot Camp. Reminds me of that guy in "Fairly Odd Parent". He looks like a Marine with fairy wings.
Originally Posted By dshyates <a href="http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/a/a2/Jorgen_Von_Strangle.gif" target="_blank">http://content.answers.com/mai...ngle.gif</a>
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<< And by the way, is it art? >>> You know the answer. The classic art school answer is "everything can be art" <<< And I certainly don't want to have to pretend I'm on some kind of mission or something -- playing "make-believe" stopped being fun around the time I turned 10. >>> If they have good design - then you will *feel* engaged. If it is too forced or contrived - it will be hookey. I enjoyed the IOA attraction - Poseidon's Fury - from Landmark Entertainment. That was a "mission" kind-of walk through. It worked for me.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 it sounds kind of neat. And, also, it is a kind of niche park. The Disney parks in WDW dont really appeal to the wealthier middle aged people with or without kids. This is one of those kinds of experiences, very much like Discovery Cove. The more I think about it, though, it could be more and more of a rear entry through Animal Kingdom kind of thing. It makes alot of sense there, but i guess the entry points that they might need for it are already taken by parking lots, etc. Maybe they could have come up with something different, but Ill reserve opinion on the park until ive seen it.
