Originally Posted By mousermerf Ok, dont read my post so literally. The IDEA is to have both Epcot and MK be "A" parks while MGM and AK are "B" parks - and while they're at it get DCA to be a "B" too. Information channels - refers to various methods of distributing information to guests. Be it web, mailers, emails, etc. The repeat guests ARE being directed to Epcot for NYE. And of course i think Epcot should grow - i'm just explaining why they're doing what they're doing. If Epcot can be an "A" instead of a "B" then they can be much more profitable overall. That's the current push. Make Epcot an "A", let MK stay an "A" without major investment (by pushing repeat visitors to Epcot) and then grow AK and MGM to "B" status that Epcot is/was at. For park hours - they dont have the staffing. Keeping the whole park open longer requires more man hours then adding a new section to operate daily and add capacity. That's all, not as complex as it would seem. I agree it's a horrible policy to have guests pay twice. But if they can keep shifting guests to Epcot from MK, they can keep MK as-is and charge the first-timers for the second admission for the party and make more money. How else can i explain.. *thinks* MK is a full bottle of water. There's a constant flow into it though. It's trying to overflow, so you start putting the water in another bottle - a much larger bottle. That'd be Epcot. Epcot can take the flow and the overflow from MK. The idea is to build a guest base for MK and Epcot is very equivilent in size, but not in makeup - MK gets new guests, Epcot gets repeat guests. Convert them as you go along (as first timers become repeaters) by feeding them media which guides their choices. New guest media points to MK, repeat guest media points to Epcot. It's intentional.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Also, Spirit - were you at Epcot this past NYE? It was the worst its been. They had to open backstage gates around World Showcase and the parking lot closed midday and they shut down the monorail (access for only MK-resort guests). This year is projected to be even higher at Epcot.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Apologize for the triple post - but back to bottles.. If you made MK bigger, you could have more guests there. But, since Epcot is already built, they'd rather grow it then add onto MK.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Information channels - refers to various methods of distributing information to guests. Be it web, mailers, emails, etc. The repeat guests ARE being directed to Epcot for NYE. >> I get all that. And I don't feel I am being directed anywhere other than WDW as a whole. In no way do I feel I'm being pushed to EPCOT. I go there more because I like it more. <<And of course i think Epcot should grow - i'm just explaining why they're doing what they're doing. If Epcot can be an "A" instead of a "B" then they can be much more profitable overall. That's the current push. Make Epcot an "A", let MK stay an "A" without major investment (by pushing repeat visitors to Epcot) and then grow AK and MGM to "B" status that Epcot is/was at. >> I don't see any 'A's or 'B's ... I see four parks that all have unique challenges and needs. And if they want to drive people to EPCOT, they have to extend hours. You can't have half the park (really 1/3rd) close at 7 and the rest at 9 year-round, that's way too early. People here really don't recall when ALL of EC was open until 11 or midnight, so they have no clue what they're missing. But Disney sure is saving tens of millions on labor. <<For park hours - they dont have the staffing. Keeping the whole park open longer requires more man hours then adding a new section to operate daily and add capacity. That's all, not as complex as it would seem. >> I don't care about their labor problems. Maybe they should pay workers a living wage and stop offering CMs half off $400 a night rooms as part of the 'Disney Difference' ... meaningless drivel, give people more money. The labor problem would disappear. maybe they also shouldn't constantly be looking to add resorts and such when they don't have enough people to begin with. It really is quite simple. No one, unless they're a kid or a retiree who is set financially, wants to work for $6-7 an hour. <<I agree it's a horrible policy to have guests pay twice. But if they can keep shifting guests to Epcot from MK, they can keep MK as-is and charge the first-timers for the second admission for the party and make more money.>> I don't see any shift taking place at all. Maybe that's what Phil and Erin have in mind, but I don't see it in reality.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Also, Spirit - were you at Epcot this past NYE?>> No. <<It was the worst its been. They had to open backstage gates around World Showcase and the parking lot closed midday and they shut down the monorail (access for only MK-resort guests). This year is projected to be even higher at Epcot. >> You won't convince me the crowds were worse last year than in 1999. I'm sorry, but that just won't fly with me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<If you made MK bigger, you could have more guests there.>> Obviously. <<But, since Epcot is already built, they'd rather grow it then add onto MK. >> Well, clearly they don't want to add anything significant to the MK. The last E-Ticket opened in 1991. The last major investment was the New Tomorrowland in 94-95. It's 2007 and there isn't anything significant on the horizon unless WDI can keep something under wraps for the first time in the Internet age -- not likely. That just isn't a smart way of running the 'No. 1 theme park in the world' ...you need to reinvest. Redoing Space Mountain before it kills someone doesn't count. That should have been done 10-15 years ago.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Sorry Spirit, the facts aren't with you. Highest-single-day at Epcot was made very public a few years back, as Eisner want to it published to show how he was bringing the parks back from 2001. So, if that happened, Epcot was already busier then 1999. Newspapers say it happened. Who would you believe? So, knowing the 1999 was overtaken after 2001 (I think 2006, but i could be off by a year) and knowing that Epcot has seen growth in the last 3 years, puts us squarely at NYE being bigger then ever at Epcot.
Originally Posted By barboy "The last E-Ticket opened in 1991." I thought Splash Mnt. opened in '92(I might be wrong on that one) And Alien Encounter came with the new Tomorrowland. But your point still stands that MK is way over due for another blockbuster, a true E experience.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Hmm.. interesting tidbit i ran across.. 2003 is the year Eisner was touting Epcot's best week ever and highest single day for NYE. 2006 was said to be higher, and at 86,000 guests according to Epcot's Guest Relations. This year is projected to be higher. And in a side note, Pirates of the Carri bean recently broke SSE's yearly attendance record (which it held since 1992) on December 12th.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I thought Splash Mnt. opened in '92(I might be wrong on that one)>> No. That sounds right. I may have been a year off. <<And Alien Encounter came with the new Tomorrowland.>> I don't consider that a true E-Ticket. It was an interesting, entertaining IMHO, rehab of an existing show building into something different. <<But your point still stands that MK is way over due for another blockbuster, a true E experience. >> Nah. Maybe they can have one in time for the 50th. But I doubt it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<2003 is the year Eisner was touting Epcot's best week ever and highest single day for NYE. >> It's not true. It was spin because the park's were in a three-year free fall. I have some knowledge of this, 1999 saw a LOT more people than 2003. <<2006 was said to be higher, and at 86,000 guests according to Epcot's Guest Relations.>> I have no idea whether that number is anything close to accurate or not. I do know that Guest Relations doesn't give out those numbers and their numbers and the REAL numbers are often two different figures anyway. <<This year is projected to be higher.>> Well, considering how cheap a WDW vacation is for people from Europe -- especially the UK -- and South AMericans are also flocking back, and the weather is spring-like, I'm sure that there'll be plenty of folks there. I won't! <<And in a side note, Pirates of the Carri bean recently broke SSE's yearly attendance record (which it held since 1992) on December 12th. >> I'm sure it all has to do with Jack Sparrow. If only they could update those 1973 speakers ... and maybe add some modern effects.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Spirit, overall attendance was down - this I know because I worked Epcot in 2002 and part of 2003, and our area was threatened with closure and one of my areas did close based on poor attendance. 11k-12k guests per day. If we dipped under 10k, we were told quite blatantly by management that we'd be asked not to show up for work. That said, Epcot experienced spikes seemingly at random. Easter 2002 is a prime example. MK shut down at 11am and Epcot shut down around 1pm. Management had no idea where the people came from and sent the survey folks into the parking lot - they wrote down where the license plates were from. Later at the Cast Hoopla (the one talking about the upcoming M:S) Brad Rex detailed this surprise and how they discovered how many locals will show up at Epcot at random. So, that's how i'm basing my thoughts on the subject. I don't know what 1999's numbers were, but i've always heard they were high. I do know that 2003 was in the papers as highest single day and highest week. Eisner made a big deal of it. I wasn't in Epcot, so i dont know. I do know 2005 wasn't as busy as 2006, and for 2006/7 NYE they shut the park down and closed the parking lot and opened backstage gates around World Showcase. I know people who work in guest relations at Epcot, who i know, are saying 86k for 2006/7, and higher projections this year. Also, i do partime work for the UG doing data research (aka: i count the number of people in queues) and i know the guide's crowd-estimate programs have been under-estimating this year by 1 point on average, which relates to a 15-25min increase in wait times. So, that's where i'm coming from. This year is definately busier then last year and all the other sources say last year was the "big" year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I do know that 2003 was in the papers as highest single day and highest week. Eisner made a big deal of it. I wasn't in Epcot, so i dont know.>> Eisner lied. Pure and simple. He was on the way out, he saw the townsfolk with pitchforks and burning torches heading toward the castle, he would have said 'Jane is really a dude' if it would have made him look better. That's really all I can say about that. And while I don't have an exact number to give you, I can tell you I was in Epcot's command center for much of the day on NYE 99 as we counted down to Y2K and the end of the world ... and even though they did their best to restrict attendence to a comfortable level, that park is such a huge people-eater that you could easily fit 100,000 in there and still be 'safe' ... I'm not saying that was the number in the park, I'm just saying ...
Originally Posted By mousermerf Epcot max capacity as stated by ex-imagineer Eddie Sotto is 120k. Just for reference. That would assume everything is open including the rear overflow areas. So, i dont doubt it can go higher, i just know with the supposed 86k last year it was nightmarish. The most interesting thing i encountered was that as soon as the parking was full and the monorail stopped (meaning only Disney buses were coming in) the entry plaza was abandoned. Aside from say 20-30 people total going in or out, Leave a Legacy was silent and no one was there.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^I have heard Eddie's number. Most people I know believe that's just wild speculation on his part. I sure wouldn't want to be there when they try to stuff that many in ... especially with so many dead zones now. But I can say with certainty that the park can easily, even today, have crowds over 100,000 and still be liveable. I don't think they'll come close to that this year, but I'd love to be wrong.
Originally Posted By mousermerf It's lookin' good as far as conditions are concerned. Epcot's been using the full parking lot since Christmas and the addition of a night to MK's NYE Fireworks offerings (tonight was the first night) means more people will have a reason to not be at MK. I'm going to be at this morning EMH at 7am (i'm gonna go pre-register at my resort in a few hours) and i'm interested to see how they park the Imagine lot. 2 days ago they only parked it about 1/4 full before switching to the other lots. Since they always park Imagine first then switch to the other lots at a certain time (rather then when its full) it's a good indicator of how the crowds will be for the day. Empty Imagine means empty park.
