Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "This response is to your logic, I am not comparing homosexuality to cancer, I'm only arguing your logic." Actually, you are comparing homosexuality to cancer. You are equating homosexuality with something very bad when you say "Wouldn't it be better to have cancer? Why fight cancer? Cancer for everyone!!" You are parting with the premise that homosexuality is evil (like cancer). Try the argument with something neutral like a baby backpack. You guys are arguing that baby backpacks are unnatural - people are meant to carry children in their arms. You want them outlawed. The rest of us are arguing that baby backpacks are fine for whoever wants to use them. If you don't all power to you. But you have no right to tell other what they can or can't do. See the difference?
Originally Posted By dshyates "But I do agree with my church that the family unit of mom+dad+kids is the very best thing to base our society on. That's why I support traditional marriage efforts." I'm a gay agnostic, and I agree that the nuclear family is the best possible world. I also believe that gay people who have kids should have the option of raising their kids in a loving no-traditional family environment, if need be. Being a divorced gay man with 2 children, I tried to play by your guys rules and it was a great disservice to the woman I was married to for 18 years. She says I used her to lie to the world. When I was really just trying to do what I was told was the right thing to do (not be gay). Everyone I knew including my parents were thrilled when I broke up with my actor boyfriend to date and eventually marry my ex. 18 years of a not really happy relationship, it all exploded and I won't ever forgive myself for the huge chunk of her youth I wasted being untrue and miserable personally and taking her with me. Social pressure to do what society thinks is right is a very strong influence on people. So consider the position that your words puts individuals in. Its difficult to reconcile what you know is not right for you with what EVERYONE else is telling you is the right thing for everyone. I tried for 18 years to make society happy, and all it did was hurt people.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <So, if you do sincerely pray for the right answer and are given a clear answer that goes against what the church says...what then? > A few possibilities, totally my hypothosis but it depends on the possible truth you're praying about: 1) You're praying about a man-made policy that the Lord will probably correct soon. 2) You are not interpreting the answer correctly. 3) The church is not true 4) You are not truly sincere and are following other influences, and not the Holy Ghost. 5) You are not ready to have the truth in your life yet, and the Lord has another plan for you at this time.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Eighth: Post 161, REALLY??? I am NOT comparing homosexualty to cancer. They are not related at ALL. They are not anything similar in the least bit. I do not compare them. My post was to refute your logic.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "There are many good and intelligent answers to why modern-day Mormon's don't practice polygamy. Again, you are using a very faulty argument." Care to back that up? Utah wanted statehood and stopped endorsing the practice where it was against the law (though in Mexico it was still ok). When it becomes legal, they will have a mess on their hands. Either god "flip-flopped" or Joseph Smith lied about the revelation. Either one is problematic don't you think? Where is the fault in my reasoning?
Originally Posted By utahjosh You, Eighth, were the one to take my post which had nothing to do with homosexuality, and then you put it into the issue at hand. Very confusing, and not good conversation.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 I'd still like to see why utahjosh seems to think that gay marriage will somehow hurt "traditional" marriages...
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I'd still like to see why utahjosh seems to think that gay marriage will somehow hurt "traditional" marriages...> It's not so much that it will "hurt" traditional marriages. I don't think i've ever said that exactly. I just think we need to do what's best for society, and to me, what's best is mom+dad+kids.
Originally Posted By X-san ***I always have to laugh at this.*** How is this useful, ecdc? You have called me out on some of my statements (and rightfully so), but here I have to wonder how making such a statement is helpful whatsoever. ??
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "You, Eighth, were the one to take my post which had nothing to do with homosexuality, and then you put it into the issue at hand. Very confusing, and not good conversation." Huh?
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "I tried for 18 years to make society happy, and all it did was hurt people." Very touching post, dshyates. Thank you. It kind of makes the other points being argued here meaningless.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "I just think we need to do what's best for society, and to me, what's best is mom+dad+kids." You make it sound so black & white - as if that by not allowing gays to marry, kids will always be raised by a mom+dad. But you know this isn't true - and many times even when there are a mom+dad, horrible things happen. So, would it be so wrong to place kids without any other options in a home with a dad+dad or a mom+mom? How would that be any worse than a mom-only home, or a grandparents+kids home, etc?? Your argument just doesn't make sense. Having two mommies isn't going to screw up any kids.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Eighth, I am guessing you are confused by your post 172, so I'll take the time to explain: In post 153 you posted "But you have to see that the best dad+dad+kids or mom+mom+kids is far better than the worst dad+mom+kids family??? " I'll translate that a little: The best A is far better than the worst B. My post 158 had nothing to do with homosexuality and the issue at hand, but only to argue your logic.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Having two mommies isn't going to screw up any kids.> In the long run I believe it will screw up our whole society.
Originally Posted By mele <<mele, that would be inherent in answer numbers 1 or 3.>> First of all, I don't even know what #1 is supposed to mean. Not every prayer is about "man made policies" and many wrongs are committed for centuries without the "lord" fixing them. As for #3...saying the church isn't "true" is not the same as saying that the answer is correct. You're playing word games. And as for #5...what a strange concept of how God works. He'd lie and give you a fake answer, tell you it's the truth and then later switch the answer? And all because I'm not "ready"? More crappy human attributes given to God. Why do humans make God out to be such a creep?
Originally Posted By utahjosh But I don't know why I'm here arguing with some of you. I know you won't change your mind, and I won't either.
Originally Posted By X-san ***There are many good and intelligent answers to why modern-day Mormon's don't practice polygamy. Again, you are using a very faulty argument.*** Actually, it seems like you are. Just sayin.
Originally Posted By X-san ***You guys are arguing that baby backpacks are unnatural - people are meant to carry children in their arms. You want them outlawed. The rest of us are arguing that baby backpacks are fine for whoever wants to use them. If you don't all power to you. But you have no right to tell other what they can or can't do.*** This is awesome.
