Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"That was creative - wrong and unfair yes - but creative."<<< Baloney. It was a lie.
Originally Posted By Mr X No, it wasn't a lie. Not even a distortion, really. What they portrayed was EXACTLY what the Mormons and others were lobbying for...the right to withhold and/or take away the ability to marry from gay people. There were plenty of lies this campaign season, that was not one of them.
Originally Posted By Mr F <<DouglasDubh: more children will be born out of wedlock and raised in single parent homes.>> This is already happening to STRAIGHT people who have kids. ANYONE can have children regardless of there marriage status. I don't see how Gay Marriage would cause this at all. If anything, Gay couples who plan to have children together will actually WANTED to have them, and Keep them, and raise them well, and NONE of those kids will be a 'Accidents" as a result from an unwanted pregnancy, nor would they be given up for adoption. <<there will be a significant decrease in the birth rate>> How is a decreased birth rate a bad thing? The world is already overpopulated, there are already too many children in foster care, and this country can barely even afford to feed all it's citizens anymore. More and more resources are being depleted every day, and global warming is getting worse, and this is all due to the worlds overpopulation. Also his totally contradicts your first statement. 1st you said more kids will be born out of wedlock, but now you say there will be less births?
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/13/hate.crime/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/...dex.html</a> During the election campaign, we talked about how the McCain camp was indirectly responsible for fanning the flames of hatred among people who were ignorant. Although they're certainly a small minority, there's now people in this country that think an Arab terrorist-supporter is the new President. Now there's this story out of New York of a gay immigrant beaten to death. Certainly the LDS Church and other anti-gay marriage advocates did not want and do not condone this man's beating. However, they have to know that they have planted in people who may not be entirely stable, the notion that gay people are responsible for the breakdown of society and gay marriage. They have to know that when you tell people that one group is responsible for harming another group, some people are going to react violently. So when LDS members say they're not responsible for hatred and that they don't hate anybody, it's not entirely true. They are responsible for fanning the flames of hatred with their anti-gay rhetoric.
Originally Posted By Mr F dlkozy: <<Disagree.>> So are you saying that The LDS and Catholic Church actually condoned that Gay Immigrant being murdered, and that gay people are responsible for the breakdown of society?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan ecdc is exactly right. When the LDS church (among others) feeds misinformation out there and plays into base misconceptions and fears about what gay relationships are and are not, it fans those flames of hatred and intolerance.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Sure. And liberals are responsible for Gov Palin's church being burned, and some Iraqi guy throwing a shoe at the President.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^Is it really necessary to label people as being "liberal" or "conservative", especially in this discussion? Clearly there were scores of liberals who voted yes on Prop 8. Political partisanship is such a tired tactic, and it has no place in a discussion on the issue of civil rights.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Don't put words in my mouth." He's not. He asked a question of clarification.
Originally Posted By ecdc Douglas, your response is a straw man. I never said conservatives were responsible for this man's death. I even noted that I know the LDS Church does not want this kind of violence. What I did assert, is that if you engage in rhetoric that says one segment of society is responsible for harming another, then the less-stable among those who perceive themselves as being harmed may respond with violence. If you have examples of liberals saying Sarah Palin's church was harming a segment of society, and it was some unstable person from that segment that caused the fire, then you'd be onto something. Otherwise, not so much.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>""Don't put words in my mouth." He's not. He asked a question of clarification"<<< No-he's not-he's playing games-I am not interested.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Is it really necessary to label people as being "liberal" or "conservative", especially in this discussion?> If that's the only way to make the point, yes.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I never said conservatives were responsible for this man's death.> No, but you did say the LDS church is "responsible for fanning the flames of hatred with their anti-gay rhetoric." Many liberals are just as guilty for fanning the flames of hatred against President Bush and Gov. Palin. <If you have examples of liberals saying Sarah Palin's church was harming a segment of society, and it was some unstable person from that segment that caused the fire, then you'd be onto something.> Is there any evidence that the people who beat this man were influenced by the LDS church's statements in support of Prop 8?
Originally Posted By Mr F <<No-he's not-he's playing games-I am not interested.>> I merely asked you a question, just because you can't come up with a response doesn't mean I'm playing games with you.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"just because you can't come up with a response doesn't mean I'm playing games with you."<<< Didn't say that I couldn't come up with a response-I choose NOT to-I am tired of the game. I have stated my opinons on the matter before.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Many liberals are just as guilty for fanning the flames of hatred against President Bush and Gov. Palin.*** Oh, for the love of Mike. Do you actually sit their with a guilty smirk when you write this stuff? I couldn't write such silliness without making myself laugh in the process. Palin? The queen of vitriol? And you are complaining about others "fanning the flames" (her specialty) against her? I've no doubt that people do, I sure did, but still...way too ironic for words Doug.
