Originally Posted By barboy ///Not if a fundamental belief is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Religions that believe in that tenet can't be right along with everyone else because if everyone (or anyone) else is right, then they are wrong./// By 'right' are you saying correct/accurate/on target or do you mean in terms of righteousness/morals?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Spirituality must be defined by the individual, not from some list of laws created by other people. This is especially true when taking a broader view in a society where people hold different values and beliefs. > That's not what Jesus Christ taught. He said man must be born of the water and the spirit (Baptism, just like He did) and that He is the only way to God.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "That's not what Jesus Christ taught. He said man must be born of the water and the spirit (Baptism, just like He did) and that He is the only way to God." I'll decide for myself.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "That's not what Jesus Christ taught. He said man must be born of the water and the spirit (Baptism, just like He did) and that He is the only way to God." And this is precisely the kind of self righteous doctrine that makes me leery of Christians. FYI Josh: Jesus didn't have a copyright on spirituality.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<By 'right' are you saying correct/accurate/on target or do you mean in terms of righteousness/morals?>> I meant correct/accurate/on target. <<Jesus didn't have a copyright on spirituality.>> Well put. As we delve deeper and deeper into the past through research and discovery, it seems to be getting clearer and clearer that Jesus could have merely been a product of his age. In other words, the spiritual by-product of numerous other movements leading up to the time in which he lived. Perhaps that is why early Christians worked so hard at erasing the spiritual and intellectual past. Granted, Christianity has served western civilization fairly well, but it may be that we are outgrowing it now. It's just so intellectually limiting.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <FYI Josh: Jesus didn't have a copyright on spirituality. > Nope, of course He didn't. But He did claim to be the only way to Salvation and hope in the next life. So you either believe him to be the Savior or a kook.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I guess of course if you take the Bible and all other writings of apostles and people who lived at the time of Christ to be completely fabricated, then you can believe whatever the heck you want about Jesus.
Originally Posted By inlandemporer "But He did claim to be the only way to Salvation and hope in the next life. So you either believe him to be the Savior or a kook." That's all very C.S. Lewis, but actually there's a third possibility. That He was often misquoted, sometimes by later writers with their own agendas. We'll never know how much of the words attributed to Him were actually said by Him, and how much was added later by writers for their own reasons, or sincerely transcribed but nonetheless inaccurate due to decades of oral tradition and its inevitable problem of "telephone." Perhaps the Sermon on the Mount was pretty much said as it reads now, but the part about "No one comes to the Father but through me" was an intentional OR unintentional misquote. We'll really never know.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***That's not what Jesus Christ taught.*** So what? Lots of people taught lots of things. Just because you consider his opinion more important, doesn't make it so. Many great spiritual leaders taught something contradictory to the comment you are trying to refute. Personally, I agree with that poster. Spirituality MUST come from within, otherwise it's completely meaningless and you're just being a robot following the commands of some other people and calling it "your faith" or "your morals". Nothing could be further from the truth. They don't belong to you at all, you purchased them.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***That's all very C.S. Lewis, but actually there's a third possibility. That He was often misquoted, sometimes by later writers with their own agendas.*** Thank you.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I swear you guys ignore half of what it posted on here. "I guess of course if you take the Bible and all other writings of apostles and people who lived at the time of Christ to be completely fabricated, then you can believe whatever the heck you want about Jesus."
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I guess of course if you take the Bible and all other writings of apostles and people who lived at the time of Christ to be completely fabricated, then you can believe whatever the heck you want about Jesus.<< It's not a matter of belief or "taking" anything. From what evidence we have, the Bible is a mixture of fact - at least as the writers at the time saw it - and myth. It's a complicated book in some ways that can hardly be boiled down to simple "it's either true or it ain't" approaches. The problem, Josh, is that you frequently extend questions of unprovable matters of faith to areas that do indeed have some information. We cannot prove or disprove whether or not there's a god. But that same inability does not automatically extend to areas like the Bible. Although we by no means know all there is to know about the Bible, we do know certain things, and we know that some of what the Bible says is simply not accurate. I frequently hear people of faith exclaim that "I don't need evidence. I have my faith!" But what if someone claimed to worship moon men. When you explained there weren't any men living on the moon, and that we knew that to be true, and they said, "I don't care about any of your so-called evidence, I *know* there are men living on the moon." You probably wouldn't have a lot of respect for their deliberate ignorance. It's a mistake, and sometimes can be dangerous, to extend belief and faith in the unprovable to the demonstrable.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Well, just claiming God spoke to Joseph Smith, because he said it happened, and then God conveniently speaks to Smith's successors is eminently unprovable.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Agreed, SPP. It's not meant to be "provable" by mankind's scientific methods.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt You know what the worst part of Christianity is? That it used as a tool for hate and fear mongering. The religious right's tactics in supporting Prop 8 are a perfect example.
Originally Posted By Mr X I've always said that. Jesus had wonderful things to say, he was a fantastic spiritual teacher (as was Budda, Ghandi, and Martin Luthor King Jr to name a few more). It's just too bad his followers ignore his teachings.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I swear you guys ignore half of what it posted on here.*** Oh, the hypocrisy. The delicious irony!!
Originally Posted By Mr F <<That's not what Jesus Christ taught. He said man must be born of the water and the spirit (Baptism, just like He did) and that He is the only way to God.>> Buddha didn't teach that. So who's right and who's wrong, Can you actually PROVE that Jesus is the 100% true idol to worship and every other religion is wrong?
Originally Posted By utahjosh Of course, not, Mr. F. It's not about PROVING anything. it's about faith. You can believe whatever you want. Me too.
