Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <However, that's not what we were talking about and you know it.> No, I don't know it. I've looked at what you claim were lies and I disagree with you.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <What can you do?> I guess just shut up and vote against them, and then let them make up reasons why their opinion lost.>> Douglas - do you really believe that if only the truth was told for Prop 8 - and I am not saying that the no side ads weren't creative too - but if only the truth was put out there... that the outcome might not have been much different!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "No, I don't know it. I've looked at what you claim were lies and I disagree with you." You disagree the mandatory teaching gay marriage is nowhere in the California Education Code? Do you have a copy no one else does?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Douglas - do you really believe that if only the truth was told for Prop 8 - and I am not saying that the no side ads weren't creative too - but if only the truth was put out there... that the outcome might not have been much different!> Yes.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <You disagree the mandatory teaching gay marriage is nowhere in the California Education Code?> I don't believe the Yes on 8 campaign said it was.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <<You disagree the mandatory teaching gay marriage is nowhere in the California Education Code?>> I don't believe the Yes on 8 campaign said it was.>>> Actually they did. They also used a woman sitting at a desk with a classroom background to say it would be taught.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I don't believe the Yes on 8 campaign said it was." Not only did they say that, THEY accused the state school superintendent of lying about it when he denied it. <a href="http://www.the-tidings.com/2008/103108/propeight.htm" target="_blank">http://www.the-tidings.com/200...ight.htm</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I prefer to be on the side that does what is best for society<< Excellent. And here I thought you were against gay marriage. Glad you're not.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Sorry, SPP. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the issue, and I don't see any lies. And K2M, I've always said that if it was shown to be good for America, then gay marriages should be recognized. My biggest beef has been with the tactics of gay marriage advocates.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>And K2M, I've always said that if it was shown to be good for America, then gay marriages should be recognized.<< Good. I believe it will be a stabilizing influence, helping families feel fully part of our society. I don't believe for a minute that it in any way threatens traditional marriage, in spite of the "Yes on 8" scare tactics. And from a generational standpoint, gay couple become less and less of something that seems strange and threatening when you present the question to young people. Having this needlessly divisive issue distract us so much, especially at a time when the LAST thing Americans need is more to fight about, is unfortunate. But as I said, in a generation or less, unless the court acts first in righting this wrong, such measures will not enjoy majority support at the polls. We'll be a better country, as we always improve when people are granted liberty.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***My church leaders have every right to speak out on moral issues and encourage it's members to vote on moral issues. It's VERY AMERICAN. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it un-American. Get the facts straight, pal.*** No, your church does not have the right to "encourage" its' members to vote a certain way. That's part of the separation of church and state, and it's called being a political action committee. It is MOST un-American. That's what Muslim countries are for..perhaps your group should form your own country. I'm sure you'd be much happier that way. If you could find a time machine and go back to the 50's and tell all those cops and judges that their segregation enforcement was un-American, I'm sure they would be aghast at the notion (just like you). So, were all those segregation upholders being good, decent Americans Josh? What do you say? Pal.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <No, your church does not have the right to "encourage" its' members to vote a certain way. > Not true, sorry.
Originally Posted By Mr X No, it is true. If they want to engage in such political manouverings, they need to declare their intentions as such and pay the proper taxes. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, Josh. Which is not surprising, since the concept of separation of church and state appears to go WAY over your head. And by the way, if I'm wrong and you're right on this, why is your "church" under investigation? Hmm? Pal?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Sorry, SPP. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the issue, and I don't see any lies." You didn't look very hard. They're blatant, and have been pointed out on numerous occasions.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Blah blah blah from both of us on both sides. We disagree on so many, many points here.
Originally Posted By Mr X In other words, you don't have an answer. You say something isn't true (calling me a liar, essentially), I reply with the reason it IS true, and you respond with "blah blah blah". What are you, 9?
Originally Posted By Mr F <<I prefer to be on the side that does what is best for society>> I don't see how inequality, bigotry, and forced religious beliefs are "Best" for Society, Ever heard of the Middle East? Besides, the 6 Countries where Same-Sex marriage is legal are some of the best and richest and most successful countries in the world. If anything, your beliefs are Ruining Society, and prevent our children from growing up in a more fair, tolerant, and equal society.
Originally Posted By Mr X The whole "what's best for society" argument hinges on the notion that gays getting married somehow means that everyone else will stop making babies. Never mind the fact that the world is horribly overpopulated and far less babies being born would actually be a GOOD thing. In other words, it's a stupid argument. Don't even bother trying to make sense of it, it's senseless on the face of it.
