Originally Posted By utahjosh <But Josh, you're not Jesus.> Never claimed I was. However, I do belong to His church and I spread His word.
Originally Posted By jdub >> I do belong to His church and I spread His word.<< But That does Not give You the Right to take away Rights from the rest of Us.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Never claimed I was. However, I do belong to His church and I spread His word.<< Which word is that, Josh? Are you spreading the word like Brigham Young did, that you have to be a polygamist to get to the highest level of the celestial kingdom? Or are you spreading it like Joseph Fielding Smith by saying "negroes" can't have the priesthood and will never have it? I just can't keep up with all the Mormon church's "truths" from Jesus? I can't even keep up with which Mormon Jesus we're talking about. Joseph and Brigham taught it was one person, now the church teaches it's another. So Josh, there's been enough "truths" in your church that you'll forgive some of us if we're a bit skeptical of the latest iteration.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <<<Never claimed I was. However, I do belong to His church and I spread His word.>>> You say it's His church... but many Christian Churches make this same claim. You really have no proof that your church is anymore His than the next.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <You really have no proof that your church is anymore His than the next.> You're right. I don't have proof. It's all about faith and prayer and the Holy Ghost. Closest thing I have to proof is the Book of Mormon. Have you read it?
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Rather than turn this into another "I'm a real Christian and you are not" pissing match which will never be settled, how about returning back to the topic? Mormons do weird, creepy rituals. But do those rituals infringe on the rights of anyone else? Is it a constitutionally protected right not to have rituals performed in your name post-mortem?
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains << Have you read it?>> No..But my teens have and we have discussed it... They have many mormon friends - and they were not swayed in the slightest.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You're right. I don't have proof. It's all about faith and prayer and the Holy Ghost. Closest thing I have to proof is the Book of Mormon. Have you read it?<< Have you read the Qur'an, Josh? The remarkable story surrounding the coming forth of the Book of Mormon is quite similar to the Qur'an. Muhammad was illiterate and yet the Qur'an is said to be the only thing ever written in perfect Arabic. So have you read it and prayed about it? And why then, do so many people follow that - far more than follow the Book of Mormon? Is it possible they were just born into it, like you? Given that, and that you don't have any evidence for it, don't you think your church needs to keep its nose out of everyone else's business? And if not, would you be ok with Muslims imposing their beliefs on you?
Originally Posted By ecdc Josh, why aren't you answering me about the past "truths" your church has had? Why aren't you out there trying to legislate polygamy? Why does your church change its mind, and since it does, why does it feel like it gets to impose its will on others?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Josh, why aren't you answering me about the past "truths" your church has had?> The teaching of the past and the teachings of now do not conflict to my understanding. <Why aren't you out there trying to legislate polygamy?> Because the Lord is not requiring us to practice it right now. <Why does your church change its mind> Sometimes the Lord changes policies and practices. < why does it feel like it gets to impose its will on others?> It doesn't. However, Church leaders did encourage support of a Proposition that others had instituted.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Sometimes the Lord changes policies and practices.<< What? You have got to be kidding me.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Sometimes the Lord changes policies and practices.<< So after you've worked to take away gay rights, will he change his mind on this too? And it's pretty disingenuous of you to call polygamy "a policy or practice." Brigham Young said polygamy was the highest order of heaven and that everyone in the celestial kingdom was a polygamist. John Taylor claimed to have a revelation saying it would never be taken from the earth because it was so important. Polygamy was *far* more important to the church than gay marriage ever was. So let's not try and minimize its impact. So again, will God change the doctrine on gay marriage?
Originally Posted By utahjosh >>Sometimes the Lord changes policies and practices.<< <What? You have got to be kidding me.> Nope. Old testament laws and rules were changed after Jesus Christ brought a new law. That's just the largest example. Or how about the fact that at first Jesus had his Apostles preach only to the Jews? Why did he have them all of a sudden start preaching to everyone?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <So again, will God change the doctrine on gay marriage?> Our doctrine on Chastity and homosexual practices? Never gonna change. That's the closest thin to DOCTRINE on 'gay marriage,' though it's only related. Or are you talking about the suggestions on supporting a proposition on preserving the traditional family?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Mormons do weird, creepy rituals. But do those rituals infringe on the rights of anyone else? Is it a constitutionally protected right not to have rituals performed in your name post-mortem?" For me, it's the entire idea of showing complete disrespect for the wishes of the dead. It could very well be that one of these baptized dead people was religious and believed any posthumous baptism would have an affect on them post-death. Who knows? It could also be that a baptized dead person wanted no part of any posthumous baptism because they were as much of an atheist as anyone could be. It all boils down to the idea that Mormons think they know better than any other religion or person and will do whatever they please in the name of their own beliefs. It isn't enough they've interfered in the lives of living gay people who aren't Mormons, they also go after dead people who aren't Mormons as well. That's just wrong.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <For me, it's the entire idea of showing complete disrespect for the wishes of the dead.> How can you determine their wishes? How is offering them a choice showing disrespect? We aren't "making them mormons." even WE believe the baptisms means nothing if they don't accept it. < It could very well be that one of these baptized dead people was religious and believed any posthumous baptism would have an affect on them post-death.> Please tell me one person who truly believes that now.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "How can you determine their wishes? How is offering them a choice showing disrespect? We aren't "making them mormons." even WE believe the baptisms means nothing if they don't accept it." Why the hell can't your "religion" just leave these dead people alone????? Why do this AT ALL?????? "< It could very well be that one of these baptized dead people was religious and believed any posthumous baptism would have an affect on them post-death.> Please tell me one person who truly believes that now." How the hell do you know they don't????
