Originally Posted By utahjosh <Why the hell can't your "religion" just leave these dead people alone????? Why do this AT ALL??????> We believe that they just might want us to do it. We want to offer them the same thing we've been offered. If they don't want it, then it means nothing to them.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "For me, it's the entire idea of showing complete disrespect for the wishes of the dead." I completely understand your point, SPP. And I couldn't agree more that it is disrespectful. However, I do not believe in all the superstitious mumbo jumbo surrounding rituals to begin with so I am not that concerned about what Mormons do in this regard. But I guess for those that believe that rituals carry some eternal weight, performing them posthumously is pretty distasteful. However, I don't think the intent is to perform the rituals for people who consciously decided against Mormonism in this life only to foil their plans in the next. It is simply to perform them for those who didn't have a chance to do them for themselves in this life. Again, these rituals are bizarre, but I fail to see the real in harm in them. In fact, I'd rather they proselytize in this manner than the other deceitful (in my opinion) things they do to manipulate the living.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "We believe that they just might want us to do it. We want to offer them the same thing we've been offered. If they don't want it, then it means nothing to them." You condone preying on dead people??????? When the hell is your whack job cult going to get out of other people's lives?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "However, I don't think the intent is to perform the rituals for people who consciously decided against Mormonism in this life only to foil their plans in the next. It is simply to perform them for those who didn't have a chance to do them for themselves in this life." It's the entire idea that this fringe element actually has the balls to think they know better. Talk about taking away another person's religious freedom.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <You condone preying on dead people???????> How is a goodwill offering of a baptsim "preying" on someone. No force, just giving an option. <When the hell is your whack job cult going to get out of other people's lives?> When Jesus removes the mandate to spread the gospel to all the world. <It's the entire idea that this fringe element actually has the balls to think they know better. Talk about taking away another person's religious freedom.> You are sounding ridiculous, and might want to calm down a little.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "How is a goodwill offering of a baptsim "preying" on someone. No force, just giving an option." Because it shows a complete lack of disrespect??????? "You are sounding ridiculous, and might want to calm down a little." If you think this is bad junior, just wait. Care to address the religious freedom issue?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Care to address the religious freedom issue?> I don't even know where you are going with that.
Originally Posted By FaMulan Mormons take the names (and names only)of deceased people (no matter who they are, how they died, what they believed, etc.) and perform posthumous baptisms (among other rituals) for them. Once they've done it, they move on to the next name. << It's disrespectful of the dead. It sullies their memory, and in the case of the millions of Jews who died in the Holocaust it cheapens the memory and horror of what befell them. Have respect for the dead, let them keep the faith they were born into, raised in, or converted to while they were alive.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Have respect for the dead, let them keep the faith they were born into, raised in, or converted to while they were alive.> Offering the baptism doesn't change their faith.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "It's the entire idea that this fringe element actually has the balls to think they know better. Talk about taking away another person's religious freedom." The fact that they think they know better and that they alone have the autohority to perform rituals is, I grant you, arrogant in the extreme. But I'm not sure how "freedom of religion" plays into this. Do you think Mormons can actually bind people to their religion through the rituals they perform?
Originally Posted By FaMulan Offering the baptism doesn't change their faith<< It does not respect their faith, which is what the Six Million Jews who died in the Holocaust died for. Leave them be, and respect their faith.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "It's disrespectful of the dead. It sullies their memory, and in the case of the millions of Jews who died in the Holocaust it cheapens the memory and horror of what befell them." How exactly? Unless you were a temple-worthy Mormon, you (and the families of the deceased) would never even know when or if it happens. Just to set the record straight, I am not a believer in Mormonism (wuite the opposite I assure you_. But after all of the Prop 8 arguments centered around keeping Mormon morality out of everyone's lives, this topic seems to be the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction. Do we really want to get involved in religion when people's rights are not being affected? It seems to be a dangerous road to follow.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder It's freedom FROM their religion. Especially the Jews in the holocaust. They died BECAUSE they were Jews. Then the Mormons come along, desecrate their Jewish faith, and say "gee, it's a good will gesture, why get so upset?". Are the Mormons insane or something?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <desecrate their Jewish faith> How is this desecrating their faith? Also, the LDS Church does NOT submit holocaust names to do these baptisms, in respect to the wishes of the living decedents.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/11/baptizing.dead.jews.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/...dex.html</a>
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster They still do, Josh. They're just not specifically seeking out Holocaust victims anymore. Oh, and the temple rituals have been done for Walt Disney at least seven documented times. Think he accepted any of them yet?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Oh, and the temple rituals have been done for Walt Disney at least seven documented times. Think he accepted any of them yet?> No clue. Can't even guess. I haven't visited the afterlife. But new software being developed will help stop duplicates and holocaust victims baptisms.
Originally Posted By beamerdog If I person states when he is alive that he doesn't want the baptism after death, is that wish respected?
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Also, the LDS Church does NOT submit holocaust names to do these baptisms, in respect to the wishes of the living decedents. >> So, there's a new software program to keep track of the baptisms you're *not* doing. Handy.
