Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Ahhh, memories. It wasn't that long ago that I too was openly challenging the great legend in his own mind the Spirit. I've since come to know him better, even to the point of saying that he's a friend of mine. That said, the Spirit has an exceptionally healthy ego, and it sometimes influences what he truly intends to be friendly banter.>> Danny, I know you haven't met me, but I really don't have much of an ego at all. I wish I did. I just say what's on my mind. I don't couch my statements in political correctness or worry that someone who lives to be insulted might find one in something I wrote (even if that was not my intention). When I know something to be true, I am not afraid to defend it ... and yeah, I realize I have an in-your-face style. But sitting back and being a pushover gets you nowhere in life ... except pushed over! And you know I consider you to be a friend too ... even with you being an old, overweight, ornery Texan! <<And Spirit, we are in complete agreement. When something rises to the level where it needs attention, I'll visit Guest Services (as I've said many times). Most times I simply don't allow this to happen. I could do a "quality control walk" and find all kinds of things that would distress me. But that's not why I go on vacation.>> I agree. And it isn't why I go on vacation either. I just tend to be a perfectionist ... I guess that's one reason why I became a Disney parks fan, because things were as close to perfect as you'd find anywhere. Sadly, that's no longer the case. But I don't walk through the parks pointing out all that is wrong ... well, not unless TDLFAN and I are doing a quality control walk ;-) <<And oh Spirit, I'm interested in your thoughts as to TDLFAN's thoughts of my vacationing style. >> I don't really know because the cheap bastard never invites me on vacation with him! <<Somehow he's become the arbiter of what separates the true fan from the tourist, and he's found me lacking. Of course his silly opinion means nothing to me, but for the sake of discussion I'd be interested in what you have to say.>> I can only say I think the two of you take each other way too literally sometimes, but PLEASE don't change because things would get very boring if you did. I would love to be around the day you finally meet ... that would be an E-Ticket experience all the way!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<don't get your boots in a steaming cow pie ??>> Perfect. That'e exactly what I was looking for!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And oh Spirit, I'm interested in your thoughts as to TDLFAN's thoughts of my vacationing style. >> "I don't really know because the cheap bastard never invites me on vacation with him!" oops, I misread what you wrote Danny ... well, he still never invites me on vacation ... and I'm not sure what he thinks your vacation style is. Probably lots of eating and drinking is my guess!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Hey, it was late ... I've had a wretched summer and I speed read the whole damn thread in one sitting. So take the wishy-washy comment in that vein. The Texas part ... well, you guys are responsible for the man who is setting civilization back decades ... or more ... so << You've got it all wrong Spirit. Jimmy Carter is from Georgia!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<<>>TDLFAN, how far do you live from WDW? How often do you get there?<< Why do you need to know? I think I have covered my personal life here quite often.>>> I wasn't trying to get personal, but it seems you live very close and can get there often. Not all of us do, by car I'm 21 hours away, so trips are less frequent but usually for 7-10 nights. My point being, someone who's nearby and can visit at a moments notice, does not approach a visit to WDW the same way as someone who has to plan way ahead, pack, fly, and knows they have to fit everything into a short time period. I was responding to you attacking someone for their commando style visits. My family doesn't do it commando style, but we are at the parks from open to close. We keep moving, but we do take time to smell the roses.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<My son, the bill collector, >> Oh Trippy ... I am so, so, so sorry for you. What a truly disgusting way to make a living.>> Having clearly thought a lot about this I'm sure you've formulated a plan to eliminate bill collectors while still making sure that people don't charge thousands on a card and then walk away. I'd sure love to hear what it is. This would truly be a revolution in the credit industry and could perhaps even resolve the current credit crunch. Or should I just figure that since it was written at 2:59 AM Eastern Time that your words may have been lubricated by some fine adult beverage and not worry about it?
Originally Posted By Mr X >>This would truly be a revolution in the credit industry and could perhaps even resolve the current credit crunch.<< I think you're a little mixed up about what the credit crunch is all about...it's got nothing to do with "credit cards". It has everything to do with collateralized debt obligations tranched off and packaged as triple "A" (safe) securities while containing a large amount of incorrectly valued, high risk corporate paper which noone wants to buy anymore. As for debt collectors, frankly I think the companies have no right to send them after people considering it was the companies irresponsible and greedy carrot dangling that caused the mess in the first place. If I were facing forclosure or credit difficulties right now, I'd invite any debt collector to take me to court and I'd be more than happy to point all of that out. Personally, I think being a debt collector must be a miserable way to make a living...all that stress and negativity. Either one would have to enjoy it (not a very nice person), or else it would probably suck the soul out of a nice person over time. That's just my 2 cents. I would never call it "disgusting" though, just something I can't really comprehend wanting to do. Hey Bobbelee, yes I can tell you from my experience that when I lived near DisneyWorld and had a pass, the way I toured the parks was VERY different than when I used to go there on a vacation (limited time to see everything you want to see). Even now, living so close to the Tokyo parks, even though I don't go all the time I go enough so that I've "seen it all", so to speak, so there's no stress about "missing something"...in fact I haven't been on Thunder Mountain for years (as an example), but it doesn't really concern me, if that makes sense. Of course, if I went to Paris, I'd have to ride Thunder 2 or 3 times, right?
Originally Posted By danyoung >My family doesn't do it commando style, but we are at the parks from open to close. We keep moving, but we do take time to smell the roses.< Bobbelee, that's EXACTLY what I do! >oops, I misread what you wrote Danny ... well, he still never invites me on vacation ... and I'm not sure what he thinks your vacation style is.< I refer you to this exchange - >>DAN - But TDLFAN and Spirit, you both make it seem as if by not marching up to Guest Services in EVERY PARK on EVERY VISIT and making my stand I'm in some way a lesser visitor, just a dumb tourist rather than the passionate Disney fan that I know I am.<< >TDLFAN - Then if that is the case, SHOW IT! Because you definitely give us the impression of being this dumb geeky Disney tourist storming the park all over the place. True fans do not do that, as that is a touristy thing to do. But then again... the more I think about it, the more I realize YOU are definitely a "tourist".< That's the exchange from earlier in this thread that got me a bit riled.
Originally Posted By MPierce << It has everything to do with collateralized debt obligations tranched off and packaged as triple "A" (safe) securities while containing a large amount of incorrectly valued, high risk corporate paper which noone wants to buy anymore. << For starters.
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C ollateralized_debt_obligation</a> Contains overall info, and at the bottom specific info pertaining to the current mess, er...I mean "situation".
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<As for debt collectors, frankly I think the companies have no right to send them after people considering it was the companies irresponsible and greedy carrot dangling that caused the mess in the first place. If I were facing forclosure or credit difficulties right now, I'd invite any debt collector to take me to court and I'd be more than happy to point all of that out. Personally, I think being a debt collector must be a miserable way to make a living...all that stress and negativity. Either one would have to enjoy it (not a very nice person), or else it would probably suck the soul out of a nice person over time. That's just my 2 cents.>> Bingo. Those are my feelings exactly. The credit card companies have no one to blame but themselves when people go belly up. They provided them with UNSECURED credit. They know far more people will pay their obligations than not do so. And many of the people who can't (or the irresponsible ones who just choose not to) have been paying interest (often at ridiculous rates) and assorted other fees for years. So they take a gamble and win the vast majority of the time. None of the major CC companies are in trouble financially. They make billions by allowing Americans to live above their means and fall into debt. It's completely absurd. I know someone who went belly up to the tune of $5,000 on a Discover Card a few years ago. While folks like Trippy's son were harrassing her all night and day with letters and phone calls and selling and reselling the debt (and BTW, I have no moral issue with what she did at all ... it was that or no healthcare for her kids!) the kind folks at Discover gave her another card and have since raised her limit to $10,000. She now owes about $2,000 on the new card, but is paying it off regularly. Every now and again, she gets a harrassing letter from the next guy who 'bought' the original debt, and promptly shreads it. Does anyone see the sheer lunacy here? That's the credit business in a nutshell. If it were a case of losing my home or blowing my credit, I'd max out every card I have (and believe me, I have plenty) and wouldn't think twice. Just like the airlines have done when they've eliminated pensions ... just like companies like Enron have done when they've stolen employees retirements etc `... it's just the good, old, Chevy and apple pie, American way. As to being a collector as an occupation? Well, I find it a disgusting and depressing way to make a living. I'm sorry if that offends, Trippy, but I want to be honest here. I had a friend who was an excellent writer and had a bright future ahead of him, but when the job offers were 'below him' (at least that's the way he thought) he became a collections agent for Bank of America. When last I saw him (2003) he was miserable, looked like he had aged about 10 years in two years and was using alcohol and drugs regularly. He also supervised hundreds (maybe more) people working out of a call center in Tampa and pulled in likely 3-4 times what he'd have made had he stuck with writing. Yeah, he's making a good living but at what cost? Off the misery of others ... and it sure isn't buying him happiness. Just my Spirited take on credit in America. Why should I worry about what I owe Visa when our government doesn't worry about us becoming China's bitch or about allowing companies to drop pension plans and salaries while CEO's get multi-million dollar bonuses?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Just like the airlines have done when they've eliminated pensions ... just like companies like Enron have done when they've stolen employees retirements etc < The list of companies that have negated their 'verbal agreements' of pensions with those who have been there 20 - 30 years and more is staggering - trust me I know. As for the credit card companies -- Citibank sends my college aged daughter at least 2 - 3 offers per month - even after going ballistic on them when they opened a card a few years ago without authorization - they have no signature and no request - they got her info from college ( who sold the students info) - Just today, got a 'check' for $5000 all she had to do is sign it - telling her people with excellent credit like her earned this right. Now I love my daughter - but the princess had her first job in her life this summer - 10 weeks as a team leader at the Y. Yet they send her $5000. If I didn't know what a nasty time it can be for people who have to declare bankruptcy - there was a part of me that wanted to tell her - take the damn $5K - take your friends on vacation and then tell Citibank to stick it. If I thought they couldn;t get her stock I would. Even when you request in writing that they stop - they do not.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<As for debt collectors, frankly I think the companies have no right to send them after people considering it was the companies irresponsible and greedy carrot dangling that caused the mess in the first place.>> Oh... I get it. It is up to the credit card companies to save us from ourselves. Right. I've never received a collection call in my life and I don't expect to. I had a friend who had a business go bad. He ended up with over 100,000 in credit card debt and not a whole lot of income to pay it off with. He could have easily declared bankruptcy but choose not to. He paid off every cent and is now doing very well. He started another business that over time did well and is making over $250,000 per year net income. Quality people figure out a way to meet their obligations. Low class schmucks blame the credit card companies for their problems. The accounts handled by the law firm my son works for are not little old ladies on Social Security being hassled for their $20 Visa payment. A law firm would make no money on cases like that. They handle cases where they can verify that the debtor has substantial assets. Garnishment does no good if the person makes nothing or very little. Judgments do no good if you have no way to collect. They don't even bother unless they know the debtor has assets to cover the debt. Frankly, with many very well off people it is kind of a game. Run up a bunch of credit under the name of one business, leave that debt hanging and start another business. If they eventually catch up with you, they know the law firms will generally settle for 66% - 75% of the debt owed if it is paid at once. You would not believe how many people agree to this and send in a check for anywhere from 5,000 to 50,000 dollars. These are not poor defenseless debtors. These are people who easily have the ability to pay but are gaming the system. Say your employer neglected to pay the taxes withheld from your paycheck to the government (this is done way more frequently than you would guess). So at the end of the year you not only have paid a substantial amount in withholding, but you still owe your FULL tax to the government. Maybe then you would feel a little differently about someone trying to collect the money that was owed by the company that walked off with your tax withholding. It is always a little different when it is YOUR ox that is being gored. Frankly, I'm surprised you don't show more class than that. You sound like a bitter deadbeat drinking beer down at the bowling alley.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<While folks like Trippy's son were harrassing her all night and day with letters and phone calls and selling and reselling the debt>> You could at least read the freaking post. My son does not work for that type of penny-ante collection company. He works for a law firm that takes legal action against people with known assets who refuse to pay. He does not call at all times of day and night to harass people. He makes one call offering a final chance to work it out. It nothing comes of the call they file garnishment papers or go to court to get a judgment. Again. What the hell do you suggest companies do to get the money legally owed them?
Originally Posted By Mr X **Quality people figure out a way to meet their obligations. Low class schmucks blame the credit card companies for their problems.** Problem is, RT, that these card companies and lenders and all the subprime folks were (and still are) ACTIVELY SEEKING these "low class schmucks" with their enticing promotions (bad credit? no job? no collateral? no problem!). And then crying about it when those people (big surprise) default. AND, sending out the sharks to harrass those very people the companies sucked in in the first place (who were never credit-worthy to begin with). It's easy enough to speak from the soapbox on this one (all those "bad" people deserve to be harrassed), but there's a lot more to it and it involves corporate greed at its most diabolical levels.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And then crying about it when those people (big surprise) default. AND, sending out the sharks to harrass those very people the companies sucked in in the first place (who were never credit-worthy to begin with).>> As I said, these are not the people my son deals with. There is no percentage in going after people with no money. If the partners in a law firm are going to live the lawyer lifestyle they love, you need to go after people with assets, not people who are broke.
Originally Posted By Mr X **I had a friend who had a business go bad. He ended up with over 100,000 in credit card debt and not a whole lot of income to pay it off with. He could have easily declared bankruptcy but choose not to. He paid off every cent and is now doing very well. He started another business that over time did well and is making over $250,000 per year net income.** That's very nice and all, but it doesn't mean anything. For every story like this, there are 500 that don't end so happily...and not every one of those people is a "low class schmuck" as you say. With that sort of attitude though, I can see where your son would get the impression that being a debt shark is a cool thing to do.
