Originally Posted By Mr X **These are people who easily have the ability to pay but are gaming the system.** As long as it's legal, why not?
Originally Posted By Mr X **Frankly, I'm surprised you don't show more class than that. You sound like a bitter deadbeat drinking beer down at the bowling alley.** Yeah, I'm awfully fond of you too buddy.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yup. Call me old school. I think people should pay their damned bills. It is called personal responsibility.
Originally Posted By Mr X What about corporate responsibility? What about government fiscal responsibility? Why should someone let personal morals screw them over, when everyone else is stepping right on their face and picking up the benefits on the other side?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I must say I am truly shocked by this thread. I would have never believed that people I thought were responsible successful people would defend people walking away from their debts EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THEM. True colors and all that. My opinion on several people here has been irrevocably changed.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<What about corporate responsibility? What about government fiscal responsibility?>> One justifies the other? Two wrongs make a right? Sorry. That is not the way I was raised. I will never think like that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Yeah, I'm awfully fond of you too buddy.>> Coming from someone who has stated their hatred for religion, policemen and the United States of America; I'd call that an honor. I'm in damned fine company.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ I agree with this as a basic statement - but let's not pretend the credit card companies don't bring some of this upon themselves. Like sending my daughter a $5K check and promising 0% for 6 months etc- based on her excellent credit. BULL - she has NO credit history - and if she was either not as smart as she is - or someone looking to game the system as you say 0- that check would be cashed and gone with ZERO chance of recovering. You don't give OJ a knife and tell him to be careful -- you don't give him something he cannot handle - and has not earned the right to have. I agree there are deadbeats out there working every angle and ripping off companies - both poorer people and rich people do this - no one has the exclusive rights to this effort - or insurance fraud or anything else. The problem RT is that people like you and I and many here pay for this. And the CC companies push this on people with less critical thinking skills than maybe they should have. SOmetimes people are in a crisis mode when they get one of there 'checks' they earned - maybe health care bills or whatnot, and they take it. not reading that the 0% becomes 20% in 6 months and it will take you 15 years to pay it off at the monthly payments. I am all for the scammers and scheisters being gone after - starting with the large % of people who default on their school loans - as they enjoy their careers as doctors and lawyers and business people. They all know better, and all have benefitted from the loans they took. I have no trouble with bill collectors per se- but also I do know those who go after people in an insufferable way - threats and harrassment and for very small sums of money. I myself had that happen and if I could have gotten my hands on the SOB that was calling day and night, threatening other members of my family that he'd ruin our credit etc I'd likely be in jail today. What was this over you ask ? a $50 bill for a hospital I never was in ( nor any member of my family) - for a past due bill that they could not provide what the services were, only a date incurred and supposedly it was me. No social secuity number, no nothing. So I refused to pay it as I wrote letters, made numerous calls up to an including the hospital CEO - who told me he'd take care of it etc. My next option was to hire and attorney and go to court - but they sent it to a collection agency instead. As I was buying the house I currently live in - there is was in 2/3 credit bureau's. It took me the better part of 6 months to get it cleared out. Long story short - I paid the damn $50 - with a a note saying they basically were stealing money from people - and that I still maintain I or my family never had any dealings with the hospital ( over 40 miles from my house) - so there are horror stories out there with 'collection agencies ' - and they are not all big bucks and horrible people.
Originally Posted By Mr X **defend people walking away from their debts EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THEM.** If it's legal, I see no issue. Wealthy people do stuff like that all the time. If you bought a house, and then it suddenly depreciated by 30% or more with no end in sight...I suppose you'd just keep paying the mortgage and never walk away even if it destroyed you? Well, that'll probably get you a spot in heaven or something, but it's not how people of means handle those sorts of investments. And if you're referring to me with your rant, I can tell you honestly that I do not care what you think of me. I'll continue posting honestly, and that's that. I took pains not to insult your son or whatever (I do think that's uncalled for), but I do certainly believe it's a miserable profession and the "call" to do something like that for a living is pretty incomprehensible to me.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Coming from someone who has stated their hatred for religion, policemen and the United States of America** I never said I hated religion, I merely said I think it's silly.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<but also I do know those who go after people in an insufferable way - threats and harrassment and for very small sums of money.>> My son worked for a company like that for awhile. He couldn't stand it. Even though he made 30% more there than he does now he would never go back to a place like that. But some folks here don't what to know the situation. They jump to conclusions without even reading my posts. As for post #149, there is a big difference between what is legal and what you can get away with. What these professional debtors are doing is not legal. Many of them do get away with it. Big difference.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I would have never believed that people I thought were responsible successful people would defend people walking away from their debts EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THEM. < and again, I don't disagree with this at all -- the issue is those who do not have the money to repay these debts and NEVER should have been extended lines of credit - many times exceeding their yearly income. There needs to be regulation on this also - all the credit cards see is being able to issue another card with an outrageous APR because the person has bad credit. And yes, I do believe a financial model exists somewhere in these institutions that says, even if x% defaults completely, if we collect x amount at 20% plus we still make money. Call me jaundiced, but I believe this to be true. I am not for people being able to walk away from their debts when they have the means to pay for them - such as the scenario where a house goes down 30% - and you owe more than it's worth for a while. No one guarantees anyone what the housing price will bring - you bought it - if you can afford it pay the bills, no different than a nice car that depreciates quicker than paint drying on a 100 degree day. My concern is that the industry is far to unregulated/controlled and they are likely as many 'less than savory' people playing the system as there are in the boardroom making some of these decisions. The hit on the economy would be huge initially, but I'd be all for the almost no interest payback of all credit loans - and then we all pay for everything but our homes in cash - or you don't get the stuff. I grew up that way and while being poor was stressful, I see so many people around me now making great money in such financial duress and making themselves ill.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My son worked for a company like that for awhile. He couldn't stand it. Even though he made 30% more there than he does now he would never go back to a place like that. But some folks here don't what to know the situation. They jump to conclusions without even reading my posts. As for post #149, there is a big difference between what is legal and what you can get away with. What these professional debtors are doing is not legal. Many of them do get away with it. Big difference. < good for him -- I am sure he is happier as a person also. I have no issue going after the 'professional debtors' at all because as I said, it is you and I who pay for that abuse. But the credit industry has run amuk - and has been allowed to. And just like you said we should not have to help people from themselves - we should not have to help the credit companies from themselves either. I am not crying a river for any of them -- until the next payday loans type of scam comes out and they figure another way to beat the odds with risky loans of another kind
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << Like sending my daughter a $5K check and promising 0% for 6 months etc- based on her excellent credit. BULL - she has NO credit history - and if she was either not as smart as she is - or someone looking to game the system as you say 0- that check would be cashed and gone with ZERO chance of recovering.>> Things like this will not be as likely to happen in the future. What you don't realize is that your daughter has an OUTSTANDING credit history. She has your credit history. I assume you probably did like we did with our daughter when she went off to school. We obtained a card in her name on our American Express Gold account for her to use when paying school expenses. It was a lot easier than trying to send cash out to her, and we trusted that she would never use if for anything she was not supposed to. (She never did. I guess she's old fashioned just like her old man.) At any rate, the FICO scores as presently calculated treated your daughter just the same as if the account were exclusively hers. So if you ran $100K a year or so through your American Express for personal travel and travel reimbursed by your employer, your daughter has the benefit of that credit experience. Because of abuses Fair Isaac & Co. has announced that it will no longer do this. There were scams going where Joe Smith needed a good credit history to get a mortgage. He would pay $500+ to someone with a good credit history to be listed as a person who could charge on the account. He was never actually given a card or even given a card number. But by being listed as a user on the account he inherited the credit experience of the card holder. Instant good credit. It just didn't get any better than that. Because of this and other abuses the FICO score will no longer be calculated that way. But I'm sure that is why your daughter got the offers she did even though she had 'no credit history'.
Originally Posted By San Diego KIDD Hey anybody over here see Councilor? I have been looking for him everywhere. That cop lover seems to have disappeared. Maybe he's out interrigating some nuns or something, who knows?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Because of this and other abuses the FICO score will no longer be calculated that way. But I'm sure that is why your daughter got the offers she did even though she had 'no credit history'< actually all she has is a debit card with her name on it -- I did not get her a credit card -- I deposit the money in each month and she spends it - very efficient - LOL ! Her car is in my name - as I had payments on it when I bought it. So likely she has no history.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So likely she has no history.>> Wow. Then I am truly surprised. My daughter received some unbelievable offers (including one for the American Express Platinum Card) based on her inherited credit history. She actually applied for one to see what would happen. She was rejected because she had too low an income. So I think sometimes offers are extended that may not actually be granted if applied for. Of course if a person wanted to lie about their income on the application, I don't know if it would be caught or not.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Citibank seems bound and determined to get her as a customer - and all she had to do was deposit the check and she was on her way. It's mindboggling. Yet at Hertz she can't rent a car because she's only 23 - even though she has insurance and would pay cash -- there really needs to be some thought process that goes into the circle of financials right now -
Originally Posted By Great Stone Dragon LOL. I am so confused as to how this topic got to this point.
