Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<while I understand some of your points inthis discussion as I have chosen to read rather than post...you make it sound like being a bigot is a good thing , or at least not bad.>> My point is that being a bigot is not and should not be illegal anymore than being a dopey anti war proteser should be illegal. People are free to hate or like what they want, this is America. The problem with hate laws as they are set up, is that you are now going to give someone extra jail time for hating someone, and this is flat out absurd since hating someone is not illegal in the first place. This is what liberals like to do, put penalties on people who dare to not think like they want people to think. Hate crime laws are the end result of liberalism. It's a stupid law, it is indeed the PC thought police in action. How nice. It makes no difference what the person was thinking or saying while they commited their crime, nothing. What counts is the CRIME they commited. The action. I know for a fact that if someone killed me because they though I was a bigot they would be doing so out of hate. Yet there is no way it would be a hate crime with the extra penalty because I am a white guy and the person who killed me was also white. Is this not a hate crime also? Yep, but it would never be prosecuted as a hate crime. How about the woman who murders her husband who she now hates? Hate crime? Sure it is, but it won't be prosecuted as one because we son't have the oh so poor gay guy or black guy invloved. People seem also to confuse motive with intent I see. So we can all see that it is PC nonsense set up to protect the minorities and gay groups that liberals love to stand up for, or so they act like they stand up for. Their is no equality here, just pandering to minority groups so liberals can feel like they have stood up for the poor little guy. To bad they won't stand up for the women of Iraq and Afghanistan that Bush liberated.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5528021" target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=5528021</a> " In parts of Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, Islamist fundamentalists are enforcing strict practices. Pamphlets are circulating on university campuses warning girls to cover up; the owners of liquor stores and music shops have been told to shut down. Iraqis worry their social freedoms are disappearing." Iraq is becoming more like Iran, Beau.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I started to write a long response, then decided to delete it. Beau, I encourage you to read more about this -- with an open mind. Seriously. If you do, I think you'll at least understand the intent of hate crime laws and why they exist, and won't be so quick to make such broad brush statements, I think. At least research it a little with an open mind instead of instantly dismissing the entire thing as some liberal plot against America. You may come to the same conclusion you have now, but at least it will be more fact-based.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Maybe, but this is what you get with Muslims. If you had it your way Dabob, SAddam would still be in power and women would have no freedoms, zero. They would be treated like second hand property. They sure would not have voted. Now they hold positions in the new government. In Afghanistan women had it even worse. Bush liberated both countires yet to people on the left, you know, the people who like hate crime laws, Bush is the worst president ever. I even had someone on here try and tell me Jimmy Carter was a swell guy. If you want real hate. Just listen to a Muslim talk about Jews and Christians. That is real hate. Oh, I still don't think a Muslim who assaults a Jew should get extra time based on his hate of the Jew.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy K2man, I have looked into it and I have pinpointed why people support such laws. I think it's great people want to stick it to the haters and the bigots, I just don't see it as being legally consistent with anything in our country. I think we have all made our points here.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Maybe, but this is what you get with Muslims. If you had it your way Dabob, SAddam would still be in power and women would have no freedoms, zero. They would be treated like second hand property. They sure would not have voted. Now they hold positions in the new government.> The new Iraq is a mixed bag for women, at best, and getting worse. Under Saddam women didn't have it great, but actually enjoyed less repression than most places in the Arab world (you reveal your ignorance again when you say they had zero), and they were not subject to Iranian-style religious law, which is now being imposed in those sections of the country (and even in Baghdad neighborhoods) controlled by religious militias. Go ahead and say Saddam had rape rooms, etc. - that is true. I've talked ad nauseum about how I feel about Saddam and it always goes right over your head. But the average woman had more rights in Iraq than in most Arab countries, and that's in danger of going away now. We didn't want that, but once again we see the danger of unintended consequences - that were nonetheless warned about, but dismissed.
Originally Posted By jonvn "My point is that being a bigot is not and should not be illegal" It's not.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<"My point is that being a bigot is not and should not be illegal" It's not. >> Yet you want to make it a crime where it gets someone more jail time if you think being a bigot was part of the crime.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Yet you want to make it a crime where it gets someone more jail time if you think being a bigot was part of the crime." No. You've had this explained to you now several times.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy So have you jon. I'm done with this thread,we are now going in circles.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm just glad we have Republicans around (some) to defend racism, homophobia and bigotry in general. It makes the whole "values" issue MUCH more clear. If those are Republican values, bring on the Democrats.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy If you think I am a fan of bigoty or racism just because I don't think we should make hate illegal then you need to go back and re read the entire thread.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip By the way... I also thing it should be illegal to burn the flag, so don't trot out the lib/freedom of speech thing on me.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy RT, you are not a crazy liberal, you just go moonbat one third of the time on me. LOL I'm going to Tahoe in the morning. Why don't you become the token neocon while I am gone?
Originally Posted By jonvn "So have you jon" What you've "explained" is your continued misunderstanding of the situation. That's not explanation. That's an inability to comprehend basic information.
Originally Posted By jonvn "it should be illegal to burn the flag" You do realize that burning is the proper way to dispose of a flag, right? So, what do you do if you have a worn out or soiled flag?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So, what do you do if you have a worn out or soiled flag? >> I'll send it to Beaumandy and let HIM burn it. Seriously, I don't think it is hard to distinguish between burning a flag to dispose of a worn out flag and burning a flag to protest.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<The fact that the law was passed bipartisanly, the fact that the Supremes upheld the law, the fact that motivation as a factor in sentencing has been around for many years or that many precedents apply does not mean that the law is sound, fair or high quality public policy.>> Beaumandy, for the record, could we just get you to endorse the above statement as regards hate crimes? Yeah, the statement in which it convincingly points out that political rulings and legal precedents are completely incorrect given their conflict with the common sense of the people. I'll use this in the future when you bring up legal rulings vs. the will of moonbat people in regards to gay marriage and the sanctity of legal rulings. Thanks in advance.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I think we have all made our points here.>> <<I'm done with this thread,we are now going in circles.>> In other words, you don't have rational responses to the questions you've avoided here.
