Originally Posted By Beaumandy Ignorant is not admitting hate crime laws are set up by liberals to prosecute people they consider bigots or hate mongers. This is why only 20% of these hate crimes have victims that are white when white people are the majority in this country. I don't even think your 20% number is correct but it makes my point that this is bogus liberal thought police politics in action.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Was Zacarias Moussaoui a committer of a hate crime ? Would we not view terrorists as hate crime perpetrators ? Is that a liberal thought police idea also, or is that OK because Rush would agree?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Or the motley crew of people arrested for their plan on the Sears Tower ? Guarantee they are going to be far more than normal ( and I have no problem with that) - because it was planning for a terrorist act - which is in fact a hate crime
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Keep posting, Beau. Really. The more you post, the more you make your opposition's points. Did you download the PDF report? (Dumb question, I know.) Yet you doubt the numbers. Just keep on posting. It's very useful.
Originally Posted By jonvn "This is not about motive" This is specifically and precisely about motive. That's the whole point.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << This is why only 20% of these hate crimes have victims that are white when white people are the majority in this country. >> That comment is just plain stupid. Hate crimes are typically not carried out against those in the majority. I'm almost surprised it is as high as 20%. Labeling something a hate crime is necessary when the intent or motive make a crime worse in one situation than another. Say I'm a high school kid and just being a dumb high school kid I decide to burn a cross on the front lawn of a kid I know as a prank. A dumb thing to do, but probably not a big crime. Now say that I'm a high school kid and I don't like the fact that a black family just moved into my previously all white neighborhood. I decide burn a cross on their front lawn to let them know what I think of having them for neighbors. To me, the second instance is without question a considerably more disturbing crime than the first and deserves greater punishment. If you don't think so OK... but I kind of pity you.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Hate crimes ARE terrorism. They are designed to terrorize members of a certain group, and like terrorism, they're fueled largely by ignorance.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Great example, RT. We're focusing only on murder here, but a hate crimes can be any number of things.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Its not about motive it's about what they were going to do or what they did. Enmd of story. Terrorists have all kinds of reasons for being terrorists, reasons liberals have never figured out. Who cares if they hate us or if they are simply carrying out a hit for some mad Mullah? You sentence them based on what they did not what motivated them to do it. Again John Wayne and Clint Eastwood would die laughing at some attorney busting out the hate crime rule. You people who are fans of " hate crime " laws are doing what I have been saying all along.. you are playing the role of thought police and you are making it a crime to hate someone, to be a bigot, a racist or a homophobe. That is EXACTLY what is going on here and it's pathetic. You same liberals then say freedom of speech and the first ammendment is so important to you? Well, I guess it really isn't. If people don't play YOUR political correctness game they are going to pay the price baby! This is so liberal... classic left wing tripe. If government can make it a crime to be a racist or a bigot, why not criminalize other viewpoints? I bet we could really get creative with this lame idea.
Originally Posted By barboy I have not reconciled a "victim's minority status" with this 20% white victim talk.
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Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Pursuant to section 994 of title 28, United States Code, the United States Sentencing Commission shall promulgate guidelines or amend existing guidelines to provide sentencing enhancements of not less than 3 offense levels for offenses that the finder of fact at trial determines beyond a reasonable doubt are hate crimes. In carrying out this section, the United States Sentencing Commission shall ensure that there is reasonable consistency with other guidelines, avoid duplicative punishments for substantially the same offense, and take into account any mitigating circumstances that might justify exceptions. The commission of a hate crime requires that two elements be proven. First, it must be shown that the defendant committed an enumerated predicate offense, such as assault, robbery, manslaughter, or kidnapping. Second, it must be shown that the defendant had illegal motivations based on the victim’s minority status." I've re-posted this part because it seems some people chose not to read it. It is lifted from the United States Code, and it expressly says motivation is one of the elements that must be proven. It doesn't get any clearer than that. People who persist on saying it isn't about motivation and have read this are speaking nonsensically. Liberal or conservative doens't enter into it, it is the law. To continue to say "it isn't about motivation" is to say "robbery isn't about depriving you of your property" or murder isn't about killing someone." It is a response apropos of nothing.
Originally Posted By mele <<you are making it a crime to hate someone, to be a bigot, a racist or a homophobe. >> I could see why that would scare you, Beau, however, unless you physically hurt someone or damage their property, you aren't breaking any laws. But you sure are determined to hold on to your obvious hatred and disdain for certain people.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger >> Liberal or conservative doens't enter into it, it is the law.<< And it's the law that was created by our elected representatives and not mandated by some activist court judges. According to some people, that makes it right. It is the will of the people.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It isn't that difficult a concept to understand. It is perfectly legal to be a bigot. It is not legal to commit a crime based on your bigotry.
Originally Posted By mele <<According to some people, that makes it right. It is the will of the people.>> LOL. Apparently, those people still don't count.
Originally Posted By barboy "playing the role of thought police and you are making it a crime to hate someone, to be a bigot, a racist or a homophobe." Agreed(mostly) What it boils down to now is that certain feelings are illegal. I like the more "flat tax" approach to crime and punishment.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger Does anyone else read posts 110 and 112 and get an image of a kid laying on the ground, having a temper tantrum?
