Originally Posted By RoadTrip Through all of the back and forth over the past few days there is something I really don't understand. Everyone keeps acting like this is some type of radical position switch for me. It really isn't. If you remember, I voted for George W. Bush in 2004. The reason I gave then was much like the reason I support McCain. I said that I thought Bush was better on preventing another terrorist attack in the U.S., and that as far as I was concerned that trumped everything else. I also voted for Ronald Reagan. Twice. But of course that is ancient history now. Again this year, I think McCain will do a better job of keeping us safe. I don't expect anyone to agree with my opinion, but that is what I strongly feel. I have also always presented myself here as a "middle of the road" Democrat. That was an area where I frequently did battle with Beaumandy. He would present some far left position and claim that was what all Democrats thought. I would counter that there were many centrist Democrats (like me) that did not think that way at all. So, given that I am a "middle of the road" Democrat, who is more likely to represent my views? 1) Obama, by most rankings the Democratic Senator with the most liberal voting record. 2) McCain, by most rankings a Republican Senator with one of the least conservative voting records (usually in the bottom 10-20%). I think that on many issues McCain may be closer to my point of view than Obama. On the "hot button" issues Obama clearly comes out ahead. But I've never been a "hot button" issues voter. People have criticized me for being selfish about wanting to protect my tax status. Probably because no one (as far as I know) is in the position that I will be in. When people talk about eliminating or reducing the preferential treatment of Dividends and Capital Gains that could have a huge impact on what will be a major source of income for me until I am 62 and can collect Social Security. I don't think anyone would like looking at a potential DOUBLING of their taxes on a major source of income. So I don't ask anyone to change their position. I don’t ask anyone to like the fact that I currently plan to vote for McCain. But please stop acting like I have made this radical change in my political outlook, because I really haven't. In many ways my support of McCain is more consistent with my prior political viewpoint than supporting Obama would be. To those who would ask why I supported Obama in the primaries rather than Hillary? Frankly, I was tired of not having anyone but a Clinton or a Bush in office for the past 20 years (and I said so on these boards). I didn't want to go for 28. I thought it was time to give someone else a shot at governing this country. In ways, I regret having done that. All things considered, I probably could have voted for Hillary; primarily because of her tougher stance on defense.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>In ways, I regret having done that.<< You also regret having voted for Bush the second time around, yet are now supporting someone who wants to continue most of those same policies. I think you're a confused moderate. ; ) But seriously, how you vote is up to you. Just know that my vote will essentially nullify yours so you might as well stay home and not vote. : D
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << When people talk about eliminating or reducing the preferential treatment of Dividends and Capital Gains that could have a huge impact on what will be a major source of income for me until I am 62 and can collect Social Security. >> The preferential treatment of capital gains and dividends has partly fueled the speculative bubbles in market based securities and assets during the past 15 years. It has led to an economy based on speculation moreso tha output and actual production of real goods. While I sympathize with your personal situation, have you considered the situation for the next generation that has to live in a deteriorating economy because we have set priorities in our tax policies that benefit the wealthy and speculators at the expense of ordinary middle class citizens?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<While I sympathize with your personal situation, have you considered the situation for the next generation that has to live in a deteriorating economy because we have set priorities in our tax policies that benefit the wealthy and speculators at the expense of ordinary middle class citizens?>> I have a 25 year old daughter and a 31 year old son. They can vote to protect whatever they see as their best interest. For the record, my daughter will be voting for Obama and my son for McCain, so it is a wash. ;-)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Well, I presume that no one has voted yet. So there is still some hope for your son (and for you) to come around.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Welcome back to the middle Trippy - where middle of the road Democrats and middle of the road Republicans come to gather. We are called confused moderates -( one of the nicer things actually ) - but in the end we vote for the least radical - most potentially stable road. Itmay not always workout that way but that is our intent. I will be voting McCain also - but as I mentioned many moons ago - I could have voted for Hillary also ( and was stunned when you closed the Clintons shrine ) - now enter the land of the 'dumb a$$'s' here as you will be told how selfish / blind etc you are..but I understand your reasons and agree with them. At least there is now more company in non Obama land
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>now enter the land of the 'dumb a$$'s' here<< Well, thanks for that.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 My 23 year old daughter also voting McCain - as are many of her friends..might have to do with where you and I live.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Through all of the back and forth over the past few days there is something I really don't understand. Everyone keeps acting like this is some type of radical position switch for me.<< I don't think the position is radical. I don't think your vote is radical. I think the way you presented it came across as if you were trying to convince yourself. The logic struck me as very poor and tortured. Most of your complaints about Obama could easily be applied to McCain, yet you seemed blind to that. That's all I meant. But like 2oony said, your vote is your own.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Amazing that young people would vote in favor of a future that leads them to reduced prosperity in comparison to the generation that came before them.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Of course, unless these young people are living off of outrageous trust funds -- then it makes sense to vote for McCain. Paris Hilton should be voting for John McCain.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<>>now enter the land of the 'dumb a$$'s' here<< Well, thanks for that.>> vbdad was referring to a shot someone here took at me using that exact expression; dollar signs and all.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 for post 88 -- Toon, it is what I have been made to feel like by some posters - which is why I have severely limited my posts. I am the one in dubmA$$ land accordingto some - surely not you. Even when one tries to discuss Obama history invoting and his ties - efforts in Illinois, it somehow always turns back around to McCain is 4 more years of Bush. I just gave up trying to communicate - it wasn't worth the effort... For some it doesn't matter what Obama did or didn;t do, or what he will do- it is just to get the evil GOP out of office - and it's hard to deny those exact statements haven't been used. REally is is quite like Beau in reverse. So I am never going to change those minds - it's what they feel,I even partially understand some of the reasoning behind it,just feel some of the hatred is misplaced. Again, I am one person and it's only my opinion. Doesn't make me right, doesn't make me wrong - but I get tired of having to defend that because I may vote GOP I am not part of some evil cabal. Deep down I am evil like ALL GOP - and somehow I had the power to rid government of the bad GOP people and didn't. I hate the far right as much as anyone here - I also am disgusted by the far left..
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Oh, okay. Because if he ticks me off, I may have to use my vote to cancel his vote instead of yours! ; )
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <vbdad was referring to a shot someone here took at me using that exact expression; dollar signs and all. < exactly - but then we must be in order to consider voting McCain...or so I am told.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Oh, okay. Because if he ticks me off, I may have to use my vote to cancel his vote instead of yours! ; )< remember in the Chicago area we vote more than once
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I hate the far right as much as anyone here - I also am disgusted by the far left. >> What, in particular, disgusts you about the far left? I haven't seen any indication that Obama will be in the far left camp. He reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton in terms of a lot of positions he takes -- pretty moderate. I would like to see him lean further to the left in a couple of his positions, but he has refused to go there. That's fine with me.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I'd rather Obama hadn't voted in favor of retroactive immunity for the telecoms - even though the administration tells us that nothing illegal happened anyway. But it's not something that a "far-left" candidate would do.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I hate the far right as much as anyone here - I also am disgusted by the far left.<< That's fine, I hear ya. But see, to me, people who say that then go on to defend the selection of Palin. To me, that doesn't suggest moderation, let alone sound judgement. Where my vote is coming from is this: The GOP has gotten us into a hell of a pickle in Iraq, economically, and in international relations, most of it when they controlled the house and senate and white house. For these reasons alone, the Democrats get to take the ball at the 50 yard line. It's really the only way to let the GOP pay for their mismanagement. I say, turn it all over to the democrats. If in 4 years things are better, they deserve the credit. If not, throw the bums out. But I just can't understand continuing with the same party and expecting anything very different. It's a no-accountablity vote.
