Originally Posted By CuriousConstance But if FP didn't exist, wouldn't the stand by lines be a lot longer all of the time? Since FP really just helps even out when people get in line, right? Take away FP, and you have the people that would have been spread out evenly throughout the day, jumping in line anytime they want to, which means lines for standby would be much longer.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros At all of the attractions that had traditional FP in WDW and didn't have it in DLR, the lines were always noticeably shorter at DL (~1/2 to 2/3 the wait of WDW's). Jungle Cruise, TSMM, Peter Pan (even with the constant-load system in WDW), Barnstormer/Gadget's, Winnie the Pooh, etc There could be several reasons for this (not limited to having fewer overall attractions in each WDW park, though that doesn't explain why the waits for similarly FP-ed or un-FP-ed attractions are roughly equal), but I think it has a lot to do with FP. If nothing else, having FP designates an attraction as a "must do" to people who aren't especially familiar with the parks. If I had to choose between DL's Peter Pan or Roger Rabbit based only on the information on the park map, I'd do Roger Rabbit because apparently it's good enough to warrant a FP. This is where a lot of the burden of FP+ comes in, since first timers may not realize that they're wasting all of their FPs on high-capacity low-demand attractions, but there's no real way for them to know that without a lot of research and/or a strong working knowledge of the parks
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "^^Only if you were in the park first thing in the morning. Prior to the FP+ conversion, the FPs for TSMM routinely sold out before 11am." We're talking about DCA. But if I was going to WDW and wanted to ride TSMM, I'd book my Fastpass+.
Originally Posted By tashajilek ">>I probably hate the TSMM queue the most considering how slowly you move and lack of anything interesting to look at.<< Now just think about how much more slowly the queue would be moving if half (or more) of the seats on the ride were given away to guests with FPs, and that's what you have in WDW. Of course, their queue is more interesting but it's still not great (at least it doesn't have that annoying room where the lights shine through the ceiling fans to make a strobe light effect!)" The queue looked kind of interesting and I actually wanted to see it. Oh well maybe next time. "^^Only if you were in the park first thing in the morning. Prior to the FP+ conversion, the FPs for TSMM routinely sold out before 11am. Now that people can book in advance or when they first arrive in the park, they're filling up about 5 minutes after the park's official opening time (though day guests have access to FP+ kiosks before that time). I'm not sure that's an improvement" That was the problem I has last time too. Also, I didn't want to sacrifice a FP for RNR Coaster and their awesome TOT for a TSMM fast pass anyways.
Originally Posted By tashajilek At all of the attractions that had traditional FP in WDW and didn't have it in DLR, the lines were always noticeably shorter at DL (~1/2 to 2/3 the wait of WDW's). Jungle Cruise, TSMM, Peter Pan (even with the constant-load system in WDW), Barnstormer/Gadget's, Winnie the Pooh, etc" Yupp, longest line I have ever waited for was about an hour and a half at the WDW Jungle Cruise! The most I waited for the DL version was 30 mins at last years Jingle Cruise during Christmas. Oh, and I never knew how pleasant the queue was with being able to go on the roof. I have never been through the entire queue before.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Also, I didn't want to sacrifice a FP for RNR Coaster and their awesome TOT for a TSMM fast pass anyways.<< WDW's TOT is actually a pretty good one to do standby. It's usually a relatively short wait compared to the other big attractions in the park, and there's enough great theming to keep you from feeling like it was too long of a wait. TSMM has a fun queue, but it moves so painfully slow that it's just no fun >>Oh, and I never knew how pleasant the queue was with being able to go on the roof.<< The roof of the boathouse is one of my favorite areas in the park. There are lots of fun rooms to pass through, and it's often configured in such a weird way that you have no idea where you're going next. I've also seen it used for an overflow queue for Indiana Jones a couple times (which it was originally designed for) or a combination of both attractions, which is a great use of limited space in the park
Originally Posted By monorailblue <<But if FP didn't exist, wouldn't the stand by lines be a lot longer all of the time? Since FP really just helps even out when people get in line, right? Take away FP, and you have the people that would have been spread out evenly throughout the day, jumping in line anytime they want to, which means lines for standby would be much longer.>> One thing FP has done to standby lines is make them insufferably slow. Splash Mountain's queue was long pre-FP, but you were constantly moving. Now, standby folks stand in the same place sometimes for minutes on end. It is become so hard to wait through--much harder, in my view, than it was before. <<I've also seen it used for an overflow queue for Indiana Jones a couple times (which it was originally designed for)>> That is most definitely an urban legend. I was working the park at the time and worked the very event that inaugurated the Jungle Cruise boathouse. It's design had no Indiana Jones purpose other than clearing out the walkway to Indy. I know its exact opening day layout and features as I swept the entire thing myself with a tiny broom and dustpan. It was designed for the Jungle Cruise and for area entertainment--and that's it. All other uses were shoehorned in later.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah, I always assumed it was designed for the JC, a). to open up the walkway by making the queue double-decked; b). because they noticed that phenomenon that when a popular attraction opens, attractions in the immediate vicinity often get a spike in ridership for a while as well. (i.e. "Indy has a 2-hour wait. Well, how about doing Jungle Cruise since we're here...")
Originally Posted By monorailblue I think I was too gruff, so let me augment my post. The "area entertainment" reference is about the stage where the steel drum band played for some time. I have always wished they'd go back to using that for live entertainment, but there really isn't any good way for people to pause and take in the music, since the are is so crowded. Indy fastpass obviously was not part of the design because there was no such thing as Fastpass in 1994 and when Fastpass finally arrived, it went to Small World Holiday and Space Mountian before eventually expanding (and over-expanding). When Indy opened, and for at least the entire summer thereafter, the extended queue was a single line through Adventureland and out into Central Plaza. (I stood in that line quite a few times.) The line had crossover points to help with traffic control and required a very large number of CMs to staff it because of the need to constantly keep people from skipping into the line. Further, before FP came on the scene, the entire indoor queue was used and full in normal operations. That queue is enormously long--longer than Main Street--and holds an extraordinary number of people. FP operations have varied for Indy, but it was some time before the Indoor queue became what it is today--often somewhat empty because of FP needs--forcing standby guests to spend the bulk of their time in outdoor and overflow areas. I think it is fair to say that it was these operational changes that led to relatively brief periods of using portions of the boathouse for Indy overflow. I certify the foregoing to be at least 70% correct.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<When Indy opened, and for at least the entire summer thereafter, the extended queue was a single line through Adventureland and out into Central Plaza. (I stood in that line quite a few times.) The line had crossover points to help with traffic control and required a very large number of CMs to staff it because of the need to constantly keep people from skipping into the line.>> Yes, I remember it fondly. The management of that queue was a thing of beauty. The line was still past the Dole Whip stand in 1997/98 but was managed extremely well by CMs. <<Further, before FP came on the scene, the entire indoor queue was used and full in normal operations. That queue is enormously long--longer than Main Street--and holds an extraordinary number of people. FP operations have varied for Indy, but it was some time before the Indoor queue became what it is today--often somewhat empty because of FP needs--forcing standby guests to spend the bulk of their time in outdoor and overflow areas.>> And it is air conditioned!! Such a waste now to have that long air-conditioned queue at least half-empty while guests are held outside in the heat. One of the saddest things (of many) about FP...
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Interesting! I remember seeing the Indy queue that first summer (and being told by my parents that there was no way we'd even consider waiting in it), and I always assumed that the crowd on the roof of the boathouse was part of it. We did the Jungle Cruise and waited up there too, but I vaguely remember being in line next to people who weren't also in line for JC I also have a distinct memory of a long queue that same summer that was stretching along Rivers of America, in the area between the Twain dock and the POTC entrance. Was that also for Indy, or did something else wind up wrapping around there? I feel like any time I saw a long queue, I just assumed it was people waiting for Indy The time that I know that the boathouse was used for Indy without a doubt was between Christmas and New Years of either 2006 or 2007. The park was slammed (we waited 2+ hours for Space Mountain) and Indy had the longest line, filling up its entire outdoor and overflow queue, and even doing a couple switchbacks in the AL walkway. That's probably the busiest I've ever seen the park
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I also have a distinct memory of a long queue that same summer that was stretching along Rivers of America, in the area between the Twain dock and the POTC entrance. Was that also for Indy, or did something else wind up wrapping around there? I feel like any time I saw a long queue, I just assumed it was people waiting for Indy> The first time we rode Indy, maybe 6 months after it opened, that's where the queue went. It even backed up out of the FrL entrance into Main Street. So the freaking queue took up parts of 3 lands: Main Street, FrL and AL. (And arguably a little corner of NOS). And this was when the entire massive indoor queue was used.
Originally Posted By monorailblue Very few people could give the definitive queue history for any Attraction, and I'm definitely not one of them. I was a CM in 1994 and 1995 and again from 1997 on. However, I have no doubt that many different configurations, layouts and systems were tried and continually modified. It was always that way back in those days. Recall that Fantasmic! cause the entire waterfrom to be rebuilt--but only after it ran for an entire summer of people climbing into and sitting in flower beds. Loading and queueing for Fantasmic! changed several times in the early years. Another one is "it's a small world" Holiday. When it first opened, the queue used all the Light Magic elevate viewing and continued over to Fantasyland Autopia--but I don't think that lasted more than a year or two. I can't recall when the small world queue reversed course (how many people realize that the current exit was originally the entrance?), but the point is that there is generally lots of changing how queues are located and managed.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>When it first opened, the queue used all the Light Magic elevate viewing and continued over to Fantasyland Autopia--but I don't think that lasted more than a year or two.<< I don't remember using the Fantasyland Autopia area, but I've been in the iaswh queue several times in semi-recent years when it's used the Light Magic terraces. That area combined with the regular queue easily holds a 45-60 minute queue, even with the attraction's high capacity. It starts getting a little hairy around parade time when the queue needs to all be on one side of the parade route, but it works well the rest of the time >>I can't recall when the small world queue reversed course (how many people realize that the current exit was originally the entrance?), but the point is that there is generally lots of changing how queues are located and managed.<< I believe the queue was reversed circa 1993/94, when Mattel took over its sponsorship and added the gift shop at the now-exit. This was the same time as the big refurbishment that added the multi-colored façade paint job and orchestral score, both imported from DLP
