Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Can anyone recommend a good MP3 player that is NOT iPod? I'm a HUGE apple fan (I own a powerbook and an IMac) BUT I feel that the iPods are overpriced and overblown. >>> Although you can find exeptions, my experience is that the vast, vast majority of people that don't like iPods have never actually owned one. What I'm getting at is that most of the anti-iPod sentiment out there is being driven by anti-Apple opinions, or some fixation over a particular detail, rather than an informed decision about the products themselves. (I don't mean to refer to your opinions - I'm talking about my general sense of opinions that I've read and people I know) <<< I especially kinda RESENT the fact that the nano's are SO "small" gig-wise (I imagine they could have easily given us a 5 and 10 gig version at the same size range, and proabably will in around 18 months to 2 years). >>> Oh, they're not overpriced for what you get, IMHO. Actually, it's not just my opinion, but the market as a whole: iPods had something like 80% market share last year, which means the iPod outsold all other players combined 4 to 1, which is astounding considering that the iPod is at the high end of the price spectrum. I can't think of any other mass-market consumer electronic product where the highest priced item outsells all the others combined or anywhere close to it. Consumers as a whole have spoken loud and clear on this issue. And it was announced last week that iPod had reached 60% market share in Japan, meaning that it outsold all others combined there. I'm a total Windows guy, but I think that the iPod really validates what Jobs says about design being king. If you look at mp3 players as commodity items, then perhaps the iPod appears overpriced and that you're paying a premium just for the brand. But I really do think that the design is superior and worth the extra price, and apparently I'm not alone. The Windows version of iTunes continues to suck in certain ways (the UI looks like a ported Mac app, and it continues to be unresponsive for a half minute at a time after certain operations), but it's worth it to me. I would hope that the Mac version of iTunes works much better. Here's a story for you: My dad was asking for advice on mp3 players earlier this year for my mom. He was a bit skeptical about my recommendation for the iPod, as he generally doesn't like to spend more than is necessary for things. But I convinced him to get the 4GB mini for $199. They were a bit skeptical, and being completely non-techies, didn't really understand what I was saying. But once they got it, it took them about a half-day to understand what all the hype is about. They used to use the same one, but Mom didn't want to relinquish it, so Dad had to get his own, which is incredibly funny considering that they were both skeptical about getting even one. Here's the funny thing: Dad's iPod is back at Apple for a warranty repair at the moment. I commented that I have more than one, as I needed a repair (I dropped it once too many times - I'm clumsy about things like this) and couldn't do without it for 2 weeks. He gave me the fatherly disapproval for "wasting my money" like that, then mentioned that he in fact had been borrowing Mom's while his was in the shop. I said "Well there you go!" and at that point he realized exactly where I was coming from and totally understood that wasn't a waste of money. The one thing I do feel I need to mention is something that's been written about ad nauseum elsewhere: the battery. If you use it daily, expect the battery degrade to only holding half its charge within 9-12 months. IIRC, the AppleCare plan for $59 covers this for the first two years, and I would highly recommend that if you plan to use it daily. It's the one thing that's kind of a pain, and a well-earned criticism. Even with this, I think it's the best option. Wow, that sounded like an Apple commercial, didn't it?
Originally Posted By JeffG If you are looking at products other than iPods, I would recommend the Creative Labs Zen series. They tend to have a very good mix of price and feature set and their sound quality tends to be rated very high (many reviewers have rated them as high or higher than iPods). Creative's user interface does tend to be a bit clunkier than Apple's, though, although it is pretty easy to get used to it (and I understand it has improved quite a bit on newer models). One important consideration when choosing a player is where you plan to get your music. If you simply plan to rip CDs, then any music player on the market should work fine. If you plan to purchase a lot of music from iTunes, be aware that it will only play on an iPod without going through a conversion process, typically requiring burning to CD and re-ripping or tracking down a tool of questionable legality. The audio quality will suffer a bit with that conversion, although it probably won't be overly noticible unless you have a really good ear. If you want to purchase music from other online music stores, including Napster, Musicmatch, Rhapsody, Wal-mart, MSN, etc., they generally use Microsoft's digital rights management system which is not compatible with the iPod, but which is compatible with most other brands (Sony being the other big exception). If you purchase music from those stores, you have to go through a similar process to play it on an iPod to the one required to play iTunes purchased music on a non-iPod. Finally, if you are interested in any of the subscription services (Napster-to-go, Rhapsody-to-go, or Yahoo Music Unlimited), they are currently compatible with only a fairly limited number of players. The iPod is not one of those players and that isn't likely to change any time soon due to Apple's refusal to license out their digital rights management system or implement anyone else's on their players. If you think you will want to use one of those services, you should visit their websites and review the list of compatible players. I do want to emphasize that most of Apple's players are very good (although I think the Shuffle is an idiotic product and can't understand why it has sold reasonably well...) and should definitly be seriously considered when shopping for a player. I just don't believe it is wise to buy one without looking at other brands as well and knowing the limitations that currently exist with all brands. I really do wish the industry would get together and standardize on a rights management system. The current situation is incredibly stupid and really holding back the acceptance of digital distribution as a primary means for selling music. I admit that I do feel some hostility towards Apple because their anti-competitive policies really are the prime detriment to this. -Jeff
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Well I decided on the shuffle - and aside from the one opinion that it is idiotic ( in most applications I could probably agree) - but for an 11 year old starting out - before I invest more than $99 I want to see if it is really going to be used.....if not than I am only out a c-note and not much - much more. "What I'm getting at is that most of the anti-iPod sentiment out there is being driven by anti-Apple opinions," Kind of ironic isn't it, since I work for the company that is sort of the antithesis of Apple and all it stood for when it was started. Now all of a sudden, the cutting edge - hip companies like Microsoft ( I am a total windows guy also) - and Apple are being ripped for being ' the man ' in 60's terminology --kind of funny
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<he average everyday user (99.9% of us) will never have a problem with iTunes and iPod. Peanut's posts are frankly irrelevant. A child is not going to care how many different formats you can import to>> Lets use a little bit more tact here. Yes, alot of people will have problems with itunes and an ipod. As mentioned by others, only music purchased from iTunes and not purchased from any other online service can be played. Leaving out a large chunk of online music purchasers. Also iTunes has a very small library compared to Napster and others. I mean come on, no AC/DC.....rediculous. Its not about being able to support every format, but it is about not being stuck with proprietary software and proprietary files yet again as apple loves to do. <<I'd give my opinion, but I would probably be attacked by a certain poster who seems to loathe the Mac platform without a complete knowledge (or the urge to know) of it.>> Also once again, I have been using macs for longer than you have been alive. I know all about their platform and the way their systems are designed. You give the textbook answers of "I dont have to deal with blue screens anymore". Do you know how many crashed macs I deal with at work on a daily basis? At least every g5 goes down in our marketing department once a day. Usually 3 or 4 times a day. And when you need to replace parts (very often) you cannot just go get another one for the most part. You have to wait weeks on end to get a new motherboard. Forget about getting a new processor. But you own a powerbook which makes you the utmost expert on the subject doesnt it? How about this, when you come back with an "original", ill say that again "original" argument or opinion, than we can have a discussion. But until then, go back to your little mac world and have a nice day.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut also iluvdisneyland (at least im courtous enough to spell your name correctly): you must not have read any of my posts at all. As I was tell him to get the shuffle as it made the most sense for the kid. But once again, you simply opened your mouth and instead of intelligence coming out, we simply got the same ol garbage you spew everyday.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Regarding the iPod Shuffle, I think that the lack of a screen is a major deficit. I suppose that if you just load a pile of tunes and use "shuffle" mode to play them, it doesn't much matter. But if you want to be able to navigate, I'm not sure how you would even do this. I guess that makes the name "iPod Shuffle" particularly appropriate.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wow, SUPERDRY, weren't YOU the guy who gave ME a hard time when I decided to buy a Mac?? ;p Oh well...I suppose I need to bite the bullet and buy an iPod BUT it's kinda the oposite vibe I had when buying the Mac computers...When I bought those, I felt like I was getting some extra, interesting features and great capabilities (I use the computers mostly for creativity, and I feel that Mac makes that stuff very easy)...with the iPod, I just feel like I don't have a better choice (AND, I feel they are overpriced!). Crap!
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Hello pot, this is the kettle speaking.>> Once again, you have not read my posts, just made some comment off the top of your head that was completely uninformed. Par for the course for you junior. Im done with you.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut Mr X: overprices is about right. But I think they are all overpriced for what you get. But people are buying them (including myself) so the prices wont drop any time soon.
Originally Posted By pacomama Mr. X: I thought that iPods were way overpriced for the features you get, so I got a small, very cool looking MPIO. The software sucked! I'd have to wrestle with it every time I wanted to change the songs (since the capacity was a little on the small side.) Then I listed to an iPod and realized how much better the sound quality was, how much easier navigation was, and how much simpler it was to rip and transfer music with iTunes. I guess what I'm saying is, actually listen to the player before you buy it. I consider my nano money well spent.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 peeaanuut - thanks for all the insight -- it was very helpful in my decision --
Originally Posted By Mr X I have listened to them many times pacomama. I don't disagree with you. I'm still trying to decide between the Nano (2gig, the 4 is WAY overpriced imo) or the 30gig. Nano IS cool, being so small, but I don't really NEED something that small and the large storage would be useful (I have over 200gb of audio!).
Originally Posted By SuperDry All I've ever had is a mini, so I can't help you with the nano vs. regular decision. It seems that the 6GB mini is the same price as the 4GB nano, so that might be an option if you can still find one. If you want to have a big music collection on hand, then of course the extra storage is great. I personally don't carry a whole bunch of music around with me, and use it mostly for books on tape, so the 4GB mini was fine for me. One other thing that may be of interest to you: as far as I can tell, there's one model worldwide, with localized packaging and instructions. So for example, my US model can be switched into Japanese mode just by changing a setting. So, I would assume that a model purchased in Japan could be switched to English just as easily, and you could download the English iTunes from the Apple website (assuming it doesn't ask at install time). Also, the track lists and album names support any character set, regardless of which language the UI is set to. I learned this by accident when I ripped a TDS soundtrack in iTunes and put it on the iPod - all of the track names were in katakana. I thought that that was pretty clever, until I realized that I'm forced to practice it when I read the tracks on that album (I could go in and manually change the track names, but there appears to be no option to retrieve the English titles from the database).
Originally Posted By Santa Monica <<I'm still trying to decide between the Nano (2gig, the 4 is WAY overpriced imo)>> Mr. X, I would wait till after the holiday season (probably into Spring of next year) to see if they upgrade the Nano. The Nano has been out for a couple of months which in iPod world means it's ancient. So an upgrade is probably coming pretty soon. My guess, 4GB for $199, 6GB for $249, and more scratch resistant coating.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut yeah I was gonna say, if they do make a change I hope its to the casing. My 30 gig 5th gen is all scratched up. I figured that was because its black but I have heard the same thing about the white ones as well.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Yea, and Apple seems to be quite efficient at keeping a tight lid on any changes to the line, whether it be increased capacity, reduced price, or new models. You can make some educated guesses, but oftentimes there's no buzz on the street until the official announcement is made.
