Originally Posted By barboy ///Being married does not necessarily immunize you against pedophilia, any more than being gay promotes it. Sexual orientation is not a predictor for child molestation/// NO SHT Next you might tell me water is wet. It's likely that I know what you wrote above better than anyone on this board. As if you're admonishing 'Sheldon Cooper' for not understanding the basics of E = MC squared or lecturing Yoda about Midi-chlorians and the force. ///You seem to be assuming that every gay person is driven entirely by their libido, but that isn't the case./// What is that all about? I invite you to reread(assuming you already read them in the first place; but based on your outlandishly loose offerings here, maybe you have not) what I wrote on this topic or anywhere else.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, they've put off any action on this until at least May. A Scout is Brave...?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox As of 2011, over one-third of all scouting units in the BSA were sponsored by LDS, which became officially affiliated with BSA in 1913, 100 years ago. And LDS remains a huge financial contributor to the Scouts. There's no way LDS leadership will tolerate this proposed change. They will not quietly accept it and continue to give $$$ to BSA if this goes through. Guaranteed they will pull all of their financial support should the BSA become gay-friendly. I'm guessing BSA is attempting to find other donors to make up the difference in pulled LDS funds, should they decide to move forward with this change.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Guaranteed they will pull all of their financial support should the BSA become gay-friendly.<< Fertilizer storm ahoy!
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The LDS won't accept it now, but the prophet will have a revelation in a decade or two once the rest of society has already fully accepted homosexuals as full and equal members. The LDS will then revise its own history to show that they always accepted homosexuals.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^Perhaps. But by then the damage will be done to BSA in terms of lost membership. Add in lost Baptist and Catholic sponsorships and BSA could take a very strong membership hit. Either way, I think BSA's days are numbered as Scouting doesn't have the appeal it once did. My son had no interest whatsoever in Scouting and none of his friends were Scouts.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>There's no way LDS leadership will tolerate this proposed change.<< I expect that the LDS, or some other group, will indeed start some new version of scouting that adheres to "traditional values" and will amp up the religious aspects of their version of scouting too. I don't think it will be sustainable in the long run, especially through the years as people start to see that this was all a huge overreaction all along. A similar thing happened with Girl Scouts. Other programs popped up here and there, lead by people who thought Girl Scouts' inclusiveness had "gone too far." Bigotry usually loses out over time, but it sure never goes down without a fight.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think BSA's days are numbered as Scouting doesn't have the appeal it once did.<< I strongly disagree. While it indeed faces challenges from youth sports and heavier school workloads, the basic Cub and Boy Scout program is great stuff. Most kids who are in it really do enjoy it, though there is a big drop off between the Cub years and Boy Scouts. One of the challenges has been that because of this ban, many public schools no longer let Cubs have meetings on school property. And it's kids who do best at recruiting others to join simply by sharing their experiences. In a well run Cub Scout pack, there's a lot of fun going on. My son was able to have numerous great experiences in Scouting that he would not have otherwise been able to do. That's why I am hoping that soon it will truly be open to all. Most kids who are not in Scouts don't have a lot of time in the outdoors, which is really a shame. Also, Scouting really can build character and develop a kind of confidence and abilities that serve a person well in life.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^^The declining membership numbers speak for themselves. It was almost 5 million in 1973, now it's 2.8 million and could drop to 2 million if the mass defections come true. I suppose that there will always be a remnant, and that BSA won't disappear completely. But it's far less relevant than it used to be. I had a lot of fun as a Scout (I made to to Star) and was disappointed when my son, who much preferred playing soccer, scoffed at the idea of becoming a Scout. He did Cubs for one year, and that was enough for him.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The LDS won't accept it now, but the prophet will have a revelation in a decade or two once the rest of society has already fully accepted homosexuals as full and equal members. The LDS will then revise its own history to show that they always accepted homosexuals.> What do you mean by "fully accepted?" If you think the LDS church will change the "Law of Chastity" to permit sex between two men, you are wrong. That will never happen. <a href="http://www.mormonsandgays.org/" target="_blank">http://www.mormonsandgays.org/</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck >>If you think the LDS church will change the "Law of Chastity" to permit sex between two men, you are wrong. That will never happen.<< Yes it will.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer They changed their position on polygamy. They can change it on this, too.
Originally Posted By utahjosh It won't. Sorry guys. It's a fundamentally different issue than Polygamy or Blacks and the Priesthood.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It won't. Sorry guys. It's a fundamentally different issue than Polygamy or Blacks and the Priesthood.<< LOL!
Originally Posted By mawnck Josh, we KNOW how your church is. And so do you. I won't bug you about it anymore, but ... yeah.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I know it's easy to look at LDS Church history, see 2 big changes with regard to Priesthood and Polygamy, and just assume that the Church will change regarding homosexuality eventually. And you'd be partly right. 50 years ago, you'd never see stuff like you see on the official mormonsandgays.org site. Our culture is (slowly) losing the attitude of disgust toward people with same-sex attraction and moving toward love and respect. But the Law of Chastity, meaning sexual relations are only permitted between man and wife, will never change. It's very different than the other issues.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It won't. Sorry guys. It's a fundamentally different issue than Blacks and the Priesthood<< A little, but not nearly as much as you'd like to believe. >>or polygamy<< No, it isn't. It's actually almost exactly the same issue. Only someone who believes there are immutable laws of heaven that never change, despite the historical record showing, repeatedly, that those "immutable laws" do change, could say otherwise.
Originally Posted By ecdc An LDS friend of mine made a succinct, fantastic point today on Facebook: The Mormon church requires young girls to sit behind closed doors with an adult male who will ask her very pointed, very explicit questions about her sexuality, and yet, the church won't allow young men to go on campouts or participate in activities in large groups if either the leader or one of the boys is gay.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "But the Law of Chastity, meaning sexual relations are only permitted between man and wife, will never change. It's very different than the other issues." It isn't a huge leap to see that being re-prophesized as meaning that sexual relations are only permitted between people who are married to each other.
