Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>If a gang member goes to a place where he knows a rival gang member will be in order to provoke a confrontation, then claims that he killed the rival because his life was in danger would he be protected?<< Depends. Is it a black gang or a white gang?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "He did not disobey the dispatcher because the dispatcher never gave a lawful order. They only said that they don't need him to do that. They never said, "Stop following him."" Well, yes he did disobey the dispatcher, because the message was the same, don't follow him. But the point I was making was no matter what or how the dispatcher said, nothing they say is a "lawful order", as you put it.
Originally Posted By dshyates And about Zimmerman getting out of his truck. Well, he was well within his rights to get out of his truck in his own neighborhood. Even if dispatch told him not to.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<1.I like guys like George who patrol my apartment,do I care that he is carring a gun (I would if I was doing neighborhood watch) 2.does being neighborhood watch give you the right to approach people ?YESSSS but I hope that person does it in a courtous way.>> Bull freaking crap Donny. I'm treasurer of our neighborhood's property owners association. The president of the association and I recently went and talked with the local Police Department about forming a neighborhood watch group. They made two things very clear: 1) NEVER carry a weapon. 2) NEVER respond to a situation with anything other than a phone call to the police. A person involved with Neighborhood Watch has committed to keeping an eye on what goes on and calling police if they see anything suspicious. NOTHING ELSE. They have no more right to pursue someone than anyone else has.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip To add... you are NOT supposed to play Rambo and wander around the neighborhood looking for stuff. You are just supposed to be aware of what is happening from what you can see from your home and report anything that seems suspicious.
Originally Posted By Donny "They made two things very clear:" maybe you don't know any law enforcement people but there are things they have to say officially and there are opinions they will only say to a select few personally. ==I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR ZIMMERMEN== I don't know what happened here yet and either does anyone else on this board
Originally Posted By dshyates I have a pretty good idea of what happened that night. But we are getting a lot of stuff that we can't put on air. The Sanford PD is going to take a big hit from this. it may come down to Zimmerman never being arrested, but that doesn't mean that the Sanford PD did a complete and thorough investigation. They saw an easy way to put this to bed and they closed the case. But they dropped the ball in SOOOOO many ways. Just the fact they made NO attempts to contact next of kin shows their concern over this death.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "maybe you don't know any law enforcement people but there are things they have to say officially and there are opinions they will only say to a select few personally." Is your reading comprehension really that poor? This is what the police said directly TO RT's neighborhood watch group. And the neighborhood watch assn handbook says the same thing. Observe and report; do NOT pursue and confront. Police appreciate the extra sets of eyes, but that's all. They do NOT want amateur wannabes playing cop. At least not any PD worth its salt.
Originally Posted By Donny Dshyates I notice that in post 21 "So here is how I see all this shaking out. Zimmerman will be arrested and charged with 1st degree murder" now you are saying "it may come down to Zimmerman never being arrested" do you wish now you would have stayed a little more objestive ?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "do you wish now you would have stayed a little more objestive ?" God, but you're an idiot. "maybe you don't know any law enforcement people but there are things they have to say officially and there are opinions they will only say to a select few personally." And if something so stupid, moronic, irresponsible and horrific were to actually happen, so many laws would be broken it wouldn't even be funny. It's hard to fathom even people in Florida would be that dumb.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Admit it Donny, you're just fine with the fact Martin is dead.
Originally Posted By dshyates No. And I did correct that I meant 2nd degree not first degree. And I still believe that Zimmerman will be arrested and convicted, probably of manslaughter. What I was trying to say in post 247 is ,arrest or no arrest, the Sanford PD is in a heap of trouble for the shoddy investigation they did. The authors of the "Stand Your Ground" legislation agree that the law doesn't apply. They say that because Zimmerman "pursued and confronted" the victem he is not afforded the protections of this law.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The authors of the "Stand Your Ground" legislation agree that the law doesn't apply. They say that because Zimmerman "pursued and confronted" the victem he is not afforded the protections of this law." Well, then they're just trying to backpedal because it's a horribly drafted, unnecessary law. Moreover, them saying this will have no bearing whatsoever on how it is interpreted and applied here.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 There are several concurrent things happening here: 1). Zimmerman himself. SPP is right that he will (and must be) judged by the law as written at the time of the incident. But even with that horribly written law, I should think reckless manslaughter would apply at least, given what we've heard on the phone calls; 2). The possible revisiting of this law. One of its authors yesterday said it ought to be amended and made more specific to address the unintended consequences. I think it ought to be scrapped entirely, but a re-write seems likely at a minimum. 3). The Sanford PD and its actions/inactions. This is separate from both of the above, and I'm glad dshyates is hearing that they're in a heap of trouble, because as far as I can see, they ought to be.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<maybe you don't know any law enforcement people but there are things they have to say officially and there are opinions they will only say to a select few personally.>> If you personally know a law enforcement official who's telling you to patrol your neighborhood while carrying a loaded gun, then that individual is a bad cop who should be looking for a different career, like yesterday. My BIL has been a cop for several decades. He's got an advanced degree in law enforcement and teaches at various police academies and community colleges in the Bay Area. And he absolutely HATES moron wannabe cops like Zimmerman. He appreciates the neighborhood watch concept, and realizes that extra sets of eyes in the neighborhood are always a good thing, along with the fact that these groups help neighbors become better acquainted with each other, making for a more cohesive community where folks know each other and interact with each other, which is the best deterrent to crime. But he is completely against those neighbors cruising around the neighborhood like Zimmerman did, pretending to be a cop on the beat, especially while carrying a loaded weapon. They are not trained professionals and shouldn't be acting as if they are. My BIL believes that's a recipe for disaster, which the Trayvon Martin shooting has proven to be true. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop and couldn't cut the mustard. So, he pretends to be a bad ass cop via neighborhood watch. Jerks like this cause far more problems than they solve. And my BIL has the decades of experience to know just how true this is.
Originally Posted By ecdc Uh oh, Obama's weighed in. Conservative white meltdown in three, two.... <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57403200-503544/obama-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon/" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...trayvon/</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc I appreciate the comments on this thread, BTW. Lots of good thoughts. I still believe there is no way this black kid wouldn't have been arrested were it reversed. Arrested, tried, and convicted, self-defense law be damned. We'd never hear is name, and he'd shuffle off to prison like thousands of minorities. Maybe he'd deserve it, but it underscores the disparity in our system.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Answer the question directly, Donny. You think it's acceptable Martin is dead. Yes or no?
Originally Posted By Donny apologise for your hurtful and false comments about me. That would be the human thing to do
