Originally Posted By DDMAN26 And I just read the Black Panthers are offering a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<skinnerbox I know you like to think of me as a troll but if you notice on this board I have been very consistent with my stance.>> That has nothing to do with acting like a troll. SPP and I have put direct 'yes or no' questions to you, Donny, which you still refuse to answer. Questions that only require a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Yet you continue to ask the rest of us questions that you expect to receive answers on. You don't think that's being a troll? Expecting other participants on these discussion boards to behave in a manner which you yourself refuse to do? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, Donny. <<Before I render final judgment I want to know what happened to cause Zimm to pull his weapon. So far there has been wild accusations and dangerous speculation.>> There has not been 'dangerous speculation' regarding what Zimmerman said on his 911 call, nor what neighbors who heard the screams and gunshot said on their 911 calls. The only 'wild speculation' anyone has been discussing is whether or not Trayvon had Zimmerman pinned down before he was shot, or if Zimmerman had Trayvon pinned down before he was shot. That's it. Everything else is proven fact: * Zimmerman indirectly referred to Trayvon as an "a**hole" who "always gets away" in order to justify getting out of his truck to pursue him, even though the dispatcher told him not to do that. * Zimmerman was carrying a loaded gun which the National Sheriffs Association tells neighborhood watch participants NOT to do. Trayvon was not armed with a weapon of any kind. * When Zimmerman began following Trayvon and Trayvon turned around and faced him, asking Zimmerman why he was following him, Zimmerman did not identify himself. He was not wearing a security guard's uniform, he was not a cop, but he was FOLLOWING Trayvon carrying a loaded weapon. Zimmerman had an obligation to identify himself and tell Trayvon that he was part of the community's neighborhood watch. He failed to do either. He simply asked Trayvon, "why are you here," without giving Trayvon any assurances that Zimmerman also had a right to be there, as a resident of the community like Trayvon's father and fiancee. Donny, anyone in Trayvon's shoes would have been frightened at that point. But I believe that's precisely what Zimmerman wanted. He wanted Trayvon to do something suggesting aggression to give Zimmerman an excuse to pursue him and forcibly detain him. Had Zimmerman told Trayvon from the get-go who he was and why he was being followed, Trayvon would probably still be alive today.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox This definitely solidifies my preconceived notions I had about Zimmerman being a racist scumbucket: <a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-25/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-friend-20120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver" target="_blank">http://articles.orlandosentine...e-oliver</a> <> Report: Zimmerman thought "it would all blow over," friend says 9:53 a.m. EST, March 25, 2012 Neighborhood Watch captain George Zimmerman, who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last month, sparking a national outcry, thought the killing "would all blow over," a friend, Joe Oliver, told ABC News this morning. "Because he was there and he knows what happened...he's been very confident - naively - that this would all blow over," Oliver said. Oliver, who said he has known Zimmerman for about 10 years, and Zimmerman's legal advisor, Craig Sonner, also appeared on The Today Show. Oliver told the Today Show that Zimmerman is "just now realizing not just how big this is for him, but how big this is for the country." Trayvon, who resided with his mother in Miami Gardens, was visiting his father, Tracy Martin, when he was shot to death Feb. 26, 2012, in Sanford. The teen was walking from a convenience store to his father's girlfriend's home in The Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman told police he shot the unarmed teen in self-defense. Sonner said he was concerned for the safety of Zimmerman, who remains in hiding. "There's a document out that has his picture on it and says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.' To not take that seriously would be a mistake. He's been advised by law enforcement – and by me – to keep a low profile," Sonnet said. Meanwhile this morning, the Rev. Jesse Jacksonwas expected to preach at the Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church in Eatonville about the killing of the teen-ager who was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of Arizona iced tea. Jackson, who was interviewed by TV crews Saturday at Orlando International Airport, called a recent bounty on Zimmerman that was promoted by the New Black Panthers a "diversion." <> As DD pointed out earlier, the Black Panthers definitely are after the guy. I'm guessing he's hiding out with his father or lawyer or some family member or friend up in Virginia, where he's originally from. The guy shoots and kills an unarmed teenager who had every right to be in that gated community as Zimmerman did, and yet this jerk thinks this situation would have blown over by now? That is one of the most racist statements I've ever heard in my life! You shot and killed an unarmed teen, you d-bag! And you act as though it wasn't a 'big deal' at all!! Donny... you cannot defend this guy. He has zero remorse for shooting Trayvon. He only cares about saving his own skin. How the F can you possibly defend someone so calculatedly cold and heartless?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox The more I think about Zimmerman's statement regarding the shooting 'blowing over,' the more I believe this stupid SYG law was deliberately crafted so that racist jerks like Zimmerman would have 'carte blanche' excuses to shoot any individual whom they didn't like simply based on the color of their skin or religious affiliation or ethnic background or sexual orientation. Zimmerman *knew* what he was doing. He felt fully justified in shooting an unarmed black teenager. He clearly doesn't like African-Americans, based on his "a**holes always get away" and "effn c**ns" statements to the dispatcher. And he believed that others in his community felt the same way he did, that others in his state felt the same way he did, and that he'd get away with shooting an unarmed black teenager because, hey, nobody really gives a rat's arse about 'those people' anyway, right? This is no better than those teens in Mississippi who went partying, got drunk, then left to go trolling for black people to beat up. It's the same mindset, disguised as 'vigilante justice.' Zimmerman used his neighborhood watch patrol persona as an excuse to go after those "effn c**ns" he hates so much, because they're the only ones breaking into homes and stealing him blind, right? Zimmerman needs to be found and arrested and tried and convicted for the killing of Trayvon Martin. No justifiable excuse exists for this racist jerk. He created this situation all by himself. Now he should be held fully accountable for his actions, regardless of that damned SYG law. It doesn't apply here at all.
Originally Posted By queenbee <<And he believed that others in his community felt the same way he did, that others in his state felt the same way he did, and that he'd get away with shooting an unarmed black teenager because, hey, nobody really gives a rat's arse about 'those people' anyway, right?>> He probably had reason to believe the Sanford PD would support his version of the story and not look to hard for facts. He would have been right if Trayvon's parents hadn't sought help.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Zimmerman needs to be found and arrested and tried and convicted for the killing of Trayvon Martin. No justifiable excuse exists for this racist jerk. He created this situation all by himself. Now he should be held fully accountable for his actions, regardless of that damned SYG law. It doesn't apply here at all." Ah, but it does.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox That's true, queenbee. Chief Lee was the second Sanford PD chief to step down a little more than a year. The previous chief 'retired' in disgrace after a Sanford PD lieutenant's son violently beat a homeless black man without provocation (which was captured on a bystander's smartphone) and wasn't arrested at the scene, even though several eyewitnesses saw what happened. In fact, the officer who appeared on the scene of that beating was the same officer who first appeared at the gated community after Zimmerman shot Trayvon, who kept 'correcting' one of the residents that she didn't hear Trayvon screaming for help, but in fact heard Zimmerman screaming. And that officer, as far as I know, is still serving on the Sanford police force. The entire Sanford PD needs to be cleaned out from top to bottom.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Ah, but it does.>> Not according to the creators of the law, who have publicly claimed that SYG does not apply to this situation. That's probably why Zimmerman's attorney is supposedly arguing 'self-defense' instead of SYG.
Originally Posted By queenbee <<Ah, but it does.>> <<That's probably why Zimmerman's attorney is supposedly arguing 'self-defense' instead of SYG.>> Maybe Zimmerman's attorney thinks he has a better chance at arguing "self-defense" rather than SYG. SPP, what is difference between the two that would cause his lawyer to argue self defense rather than SYG?
Originally Posted By queenbee I find it interesting that Zimmerman's attorney was at first arguing stand your ground but changed his mind and is now saying self-defense. What does he know that would make this change make sense...
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Not according to the creators of the law, who have publicly claimed that SYG does not apply to this situation. That's probably why Zimmerman's attorney is supposedly arguing 'self-defense' instead of SYG." Ok- not to act all superior here, but at some point, all the non-lawyers here are going to need to dial it down a bit because you're getting into things of which as of yet, you have not shown an understanding. I'm puzzled by the defense lawyer's statement, as are a lot of legal people. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Nonetheless, when you state the legislators who wrote this law are saying it wasn't meant to apply here, legally, that means squat. Often, courts look into the legislative history of a particular law if it helps them interpret an ambiguously drafted statute, but if anything, this particular law is hardly ambiguous and two, the key word here is "history". As in what was said while the bill that became the statue was being debated. That is the only applicable time period when a court can look at legislative intent. What they say now can hardly be taken at face value, much less credible, in light of all the things that have transpired since Martin was killed. If anything, the most credible thing to say about any statements the drafters may make now is that they're backpedaling. As I said in a much earlier post, this is what happens when a bad law gets passed. This is what happens when Rednecks rule. As was shown last night for example, GOP voters went for Santorum in Louisiana. Rednecks rule the GOP in Louisiana. Donny thinks Martin's death is acceptable because he believes the law allowed for a fatal outcome and he's one of those Rednecks that voted for the Rednecks that passed this. Whether or not it's a bad law, whether or not Zimmerman is every bad thing known to man and/or a product of his environment, the law has to be followed. A nation of vigilantes, including Obama who should have stayed out of this, helps nothing. Cooler heads HAVE to prevail here, because nothing anyone says or does is bringing the kid back, and if anything, many, many people in this country are adding fuel to a fire that could end up with even more dead. Just what we need, more riots. So let's back off and let things take their course. Energy should be focused on changing the law and ensuring no one else gets killed. If Zimmerman remains free, which is possible, then he remains "free". His life already ruined and that might have to be punishment enough for people.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Much earlier, I posted an article by someone who knows Florida law, and the article said if Zimmerman pleads self defense, then a prosecutor would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt it wasn't. It could be the defense lawyer's way of saying if they decide to prosecute, it will be a huge upward climb. And again, if I had to bet a dollar, a plea to involuntary manslaughter is the best outcome I think any prosecution has here. But that's just me.
Originally Posted By queenbee <<Ok- not to act all superior here, but at some point, all the non-lawyers here are going to need to dial it down a bit because you're getting into things of which as of yet, you have not shown an understanding. I'm puzzled by the defense lawyer's statement, as are a lot of legal people. It doesn't make a lot of sense. >> Hey, gentle! If the legal community is puzzled it stands to reason us lay-people would be even more so. Although I condemn the actions of the New Black Panthers and the wanted poster, and any other behavior that incites violence, I am reminded that it was vigilence that brought national attention to this issue. I agree that focusing on changing the legislation and ensuring no further violence occurs is of paramount importance. However, the initial outcry was necessary.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Hey, gentle! If the legal community is puzzled it stands to reason us lay-people would be even more so" I was referring more to the "arrest the %$#! The laws don't apply!!" crowd.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Just what we need, more riots.<< Hopefully that won't happen. But I am angered by this crime, and I refuse to not call it a crime. No way in the world, had the situation been reversed, that Trayvon Martin wouldn't be in jail right now. And everyone knows it. I do hope it sheds fresh light on these ridiculously written laws and prevents a preventable tragedy like this from ever happening again.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "No way in the world, had the situation been reversed, that Trayvon Martin wouldn't be in jail right now." If the situation were reversed, people who are calling for Zimmerman's head right now would be jumping over themselves to defend Trayvon. Everybody has their biases.
Originally Posted By Donny Here is a friend of Zimmermen to defend his friend. <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/trayvon-martin-shooting-geroge-zimmerman-legal-advisor-joe-oli.." target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/vide...oe-oli..</a>.
Originally Posted By Donny boy SPP you are soooooooo desperate to paint this guy a racist.In the video you can tell his friend wants people to know the Zimm is not a racist.
