Originally Posted By wahooskipper The Florida legislature, at the Governor's urging, will be reviewing the law. Of course, I think that is for show becuase the Florida Legislature is beholden to the NRA. The vote passed the Florida Senate unanimously and there were only 20 or so nay votes in the Florida House. Sad state of affairs in the State of Florida. Oh, and it is illegal for a licensed permit holder to carry gun into a City Hall but they are welcome to carry it to the playground at the City Park. We need to keep our elected officials safe don't ya know?!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I wonder if there will be any successful effort to at east adjust this law to make it less likely to be used by vigilantes?>> I think so, 2oony. Because if they don't, then we'll see an explosion of situations like this one, especially if Zimmerman isn't found guilty of second degree murder.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper skinner...maybe they like Denzel and Oprah because they are entertaining and don't want to kill people. Can you picture either of them picking a fight in the middle of the MGM Grand?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Oh, and it is illegal for a licensed permit holder to carry gun into a City Hall but they are welcome to carry it to the playground at the City Park. We need to keep our elected officials safe don't ya know?!<< Hell, I just figured all the little kids in Florida are packing' heat at this point. : p
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "This is not to say Zimmermen is innocent but he is not a racist." And you base that on... a statement from Zimmerman's friend, who pretty much by definition is not going to be objective. As ecdc says, racism is a complex thing. Again, I liken it to a negative human trait, like selfishness. I wouldn't call my sister, let's say, a selfish person, full stop. But I've seen her do selfish things in her life. So have I. And relatively few people any more can probably be legitimately described as "racists," full stop. Yet they may act on that negative impulse at certain times.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Again, this happened over a month ago now and there is still no arrest even though the vast majority of people commenting on this board have basically said it is cut and dry. Apparently it is not. My best guess: Because of national pressure I think that the State or the Feds will make the arrest against their better judgment. I suspect they will do so knowing there is a good chance they lose their case. So, there will be joy when they see this guy in handcuffs and there will be international intrigue as the case is tried with play by play coming from the esteemed press. Then, because the law is so bad the jury will find Zimmermen not guilty and there will be outrage, pandemonium and crying in the streets. Of course, that is just a guess." My sentiments exactly.
Originally Posted By Donny The account Zimmerman gave police <a href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager" target="_blank">http://articles.orlandosentine...teenager</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I thought it was impossible for the Sanford PD to arrest him at this point, because the other entities have stepped in. So if he's arrested, it will be by the State or the Feds, and that can't happen until they thoroughly investigate. My guess is that they will arrest him, and (if they're smart) study the law very carefully to figure out what they could convict him on (like negligent manslaughter) and try him on that.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutors aren't trying to figure out a plea deal that they could make that might calm everyone just enough to avert riots even if no one is really happy about it.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox You're giving these people way too much credit for being intelligent and logical, wahoo. They weren't. They watched Fox News for most of the day. (Don't ask about the Oprah thing because I didn't quite understand that one myself.) Rappers simply weren't on their radar screens. They couldn't have identified Tupac out of a group of young black men if their lives depended on it. It's about perceived images. Just like it is for Zimmerman. If Zimmerman sees a young black kid, he automatically sees a troublemaker. Adult African-Americans who are part of that 'Denzel group' are different. But the young ones? He believes they're all a bunch of criminals: <a href="http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/03/23/george_zimmerman_s_long_lonely_war_against_black_youths_doing_things.html" target="_blank">http://www.slate.com/blogs/wei...ngs.html</a> <> Adam Weinstein and Matt DeLuca have pulled the logs of 911 calls that George Zimmerman made before this year's shooting. Spot the pattern. From Weinstein: In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development's back entrance. "[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers. Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher. From DeLuca: On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy. Add this to Trayvon call, when Zimmerman apparently muttered a racial slur, and you have to ask if Zimmerman had a hang-up about young black men in the gated community. Or hey, maybe you don't have to ask. Over at her blog, Michelle Malkin mutters that "the Al Sharpton/New Black Panthers Party-led mob is forging ahead with its polarizing racial profiling narratives despite the fact that the alleged shooter is Hispanic and multiracial." What that has to do with anything, I cannot say. In recorded history, there are certainly examples of non-white people bearing animus against other non-white people. The Zimmerman situation might turn out to be one of those cases. The proper conservative strategy, if that's not too crude a term, is the one employed by Rep. Allen West -- focus on the facts of the case, and how a law meant for self-defense may have be incorrectly applied to defend a first-degree murderer. The dunderhead strategy is to make this yet another point-and-sputter rant about how the real racists, surely, are liberals who think that racism exists. <> Zimmerman isn't necessarily racist against non-white adults who look and act like most of the whites living in his gated community. But in his mind, young skinny black kids don't live where he lives (which isn't actually true), and shouldn't be there. It's a selective form of racism that springs from paranoia regarding perceived threats targeted towards *him* from a specific group, of which Trayvon was a member. In Zimmerman's mind, Trayvon was at first guilty of 'walking while young and black.' Which, of course, is the group which Zimmerman primarily targets during his neighborhood watch patrols.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It is possible that Zimmerman could accept African-Americans who are like Nat King Cole and Denzel Washington, but absolutely hate African-Americans like Tupac and Jay Z." Nat Cole? Really? Throughout most of his life he suffered through all manner of racism. He was the Tupac of his day. From his wiki page: "Cole fought racism all his life and rarely performed in segregated venues. In 1956, he was assaulted on stage during a concert in Birmingham, Alabama, with the Ted Heath Band (while singing the song "Little Girl"), by three members of the North Alabama White Citizens Council (a group led by Education of Little Tree author Asa "Forrest" Carter, himself not among the attackers), who apparently were attempting to kidnap him (Ruuth 14). The three male attackers ran down the aisles of the auditorium towards Cole and his band. Although local law enforcement quickly ended the invasion of the stage, the ensuing melée toppled Cole from his piano bench and injured his back. Cole did not finish the concert and never again performed in the South. A fourth member of the group who had participated in the plot was later arrested in connection with the act. All were later tried and convicted for their roles in the crime. In August 1948, Cole purchased a house from Col. Harry Gantz, the former husband of Lois Weber, in the all-white Hancock Park neighborhood of Los Angeles. The Ku Klux Klan, still active in Los Angeles well into the 1950s, responded by placing a burning cross on his front lawn. Members of the property-owners association told Cole they did not want any undesirables moving in. Cole retorted, "Neither do I. And if I see anybody undesirable coming in here, I'll be the first to complain." In 1956, he was contracted to perform in Cuba and wanted to stay at the Hotel Nacional de Cuba, Havana, but was not allowed to because it operated a color bar. Cole honored his contract, and the concert at the Tropicana was a huge success. The following year, he returned to Cuba for another concert, singing many songs in Spanish. There is now a tribute to him in the form of a bust and a jukebox in the Hotel Nacional." While accepted by show business, he had a very hard time just about everywhere else. But anyway, if we're going to define racists by Cole, Washington, Tupac and Jay Z, then I guess I'm a racist, because while I am a fan of Cole's music, have neutral thoughts on Washington, I never cared one whit for Tupac and Jay Z leaves me cold as well. Maybe another litmus test is in order.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Donny... did it ever occur to you that Zimmerman might not be telling the entire story? That perhaps he said something to Trayvon to provoke him? Like calling him the N word or 'c**n' to his face? I have no problem believing that Zimmerman would have done precisely that, in order to get Trayvon to make the first move, so that Zimmerman could legally attack him per SYG. Sorry, but after reading the account that Zimmerman gave police about how the events unfolded, I find it very difficult to believe that this is precisely what happened, especially the part of Trayvon climbing on top of Zimmerman and slamming his head into the sidewalk several times. The guy weighs almost twice as much as what Trayvon weighed. Sounds like BS to me.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<But anyway, if we're going to define racists by Cole, Washington, Tupac and Jay Z, then I guess I'm a racist, because while I am a fan of Cole's music, have neutral thoughts on Washington, I never cared one whit for Tupac and Jay Z leaves me cold as well.>> Wow. Way to miss my point entirely. I'm using a real-world example of how selective racism works. It wasn't uncommon for many conservative white folk, like my parents, to accept entertainers like Nat King Cole and Denzel because they were more like them than rappers such as Tupac and Jay Z. Sure, there were many who didn't accept Nat because he was black. But there were also moderate conservatives who could accept him even though they were still racist against other African-Americans. I believe Zimmerman is in this group. His racism is selective to one particular faction of the African-American community. And unfortunately for Trayvon, he was part of it.
Originally Posted By Donny skinnerbox thats a good question. What was said between the two people but hateful words should never cause you to attack another person. I was called terrible things on my mission by people who I am pretty sure never met my mother but I learned to walk on.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Forensic audiologists have enhanced the 911 tapes and have concluded that it does, in fact, sound like Zimmerman uses the "coon".<< Would love to see a link if you have one.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<What was said between the two people but hateful words should never cause you to attack another person.>> That's only in an ideal world, Donny. For some people, especially young developing teens, words have far stronger meanings than they do for adults. <<I was called terrible things on my mission by people who I am pretty sure never met my mother but I learned to walk on.>> But you were a white adult male. Also a Mormon. You white Mormon kids have a history of being painfully polite and self-effacing. You were not a young black male still dealing with the changing emotions experienced by all growing teens. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Would love to see a link if you have one" The guy I saw was on MSNBC so no link. But I will look around to see if I can find a print version.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I believe the person you saw on MSNBC, dshyates, was Michael Smerconish: <a href="http://twitter.com/" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/</a>#!/smerconish/statuses/182408160378765313
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Another link gone bad. Try this one: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/</a>#!/smerconish/statuses/182408160378765313
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Sorry. I don't know why these links do that sometimes. As for the enhanced audio, here's the link that Smerconish furnished on his tweet: <a href="http://soundcloud.com/smerconishshow/fn-coons" target="_blank">http://soundcloud.com/smerconi...fn-coons</a> I played the audio. Sounds like 'c**ns' to me.
