Originally Posted By skinnerbox Donny... would you like to tell Cristina and Charo they are *not* white because they're Hispanic? <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2011/08/tca-2011-cristina-saralegui-telemundo-new-show.html" target="_blank">http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...how.html</a> <a href="http://www.charo.info" target="_blank">http://www.charo.info</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <You can NOT claim self defense when you are the one chasing. That is the exact opposite of self defense. End of story. Game Over. Thank You and Good Night.> Exactly. Also, the witnesses (see post #14) say that it was the kid who was crying for help, even though initially the police "corrected" one witness to change the story so that it was Zimmerman crying for help instead (presumably that's been actually corrected back to the truth.)
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>your own little stupid world. falsified facts just run ramped here<< Good refudiation.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Does anyone know where Donny lives? Does he live and/or work in Sanford?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Sitting here in my Mesa hotel room our choices on TV are limited, but this issue has been on several channels. The Florida lawyers I've seen say depending what happened, even though dispatch said not to follow (as I said earlier), Zimmerman still MIGHT have a self defense claim. The two things are separate. What hurts Zimmerman is the disobedience and his 911 statement "they always get away". Police, or some agency, is going to have to sift through all the statements from people before determining if they have enough for a charge, likely manslaughter, would hold up. Just because Martin is dead and everyone knows they scuffled is not enough. They can't go forward, or shouldn't go forward, just because we all "know" what happened.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Regardless of the skin color of the assailant, the skin color of the victim is the factor at play here, Donny. This was racism because the victim was targeted due to his skin color.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Just because Martin is dead and everyone knows they scuffled is not enough. They can't go forward, or shouldn't go forward, just because we all "know" what happened. >>> Thank you for that. I wanted to comment on this earlier when someone predicted a "1st degree murder" charge. To be successful with that, the prosecution would have to prove prior intent. It seems possible that this guy had in his mind that he might someday use his gun in self defense against those attacking his neighborhood. But for this situation to be "1st degree murder" it would have to mean that he planned in advance to kill someone NOT in self-defense. I don't see anything that indicates that this was the case.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Precisely, TS. Zimmerman made that crystal clear in the 911 recording, when he told the dispatcher that "these *bleep* always get away" after describing Martin as black and "acting suspicious" by looking around. Zimmerman believed him to be "suspicious" because he was a black kid in mostly white gated neighborhood. Period.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I wanted to comment on this earlier when someone predicted a "1st degree murder" charge. To be successful with that, the prosecution would have to prove prior intent.>> I doubt they can. Which is why I posted earlier in this thread that second degree murder would be a more appropriate charge.
Originally Posted By dshyates I actually meant 2nd degree when I wrote 1st degree. I just talked to the State Atty. they are looking at manslaughter.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of federal civil rights charge in here as well. The family certainly has ample cause for a civil suit.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Perhaps, mele. But it gave me a chance to vent about this issue, since reading about it online and watching Rev Al's show last week. (Rev Al had the Martin family on his show, and will continue to cover this story all week.) Stuff like this makes my heart feel raw, so venting a bit feels a little better. Zimmerman is a racist thug who was looking and hoping for trouble. Anyone doing "neighborhood watch" while carrying a gun and using language like this jerk did with the dispatcher is definitely looking to instigate something, especially since he was told to stay put and wait for the police. And as far as I'm concerned, Donny has once again demonstrated a very strong predilection for racist thinking. Zimmerman is obviously a racist, and Donny appears to be defending him while calling us morons who make stuff up. Not too difficult to see why Donny hates Obama soooooooo much.
Originally Posted By mele Except you've stated that you know he makes fake comments in order to troll us. Engaging him only legitimizes him and he doesn't deserve that. Of course this issue is about race so indulging in a conversation about hispanics is just absurd.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Exactly, why agrue with someone who has no interest in intelligent discourse? He just drops these comment bombs to insight you and piss you off. My advise, ignore all such posts an DNFTT.
Originally Posted By hopemax I've mentioned before about coping mechanisms people invoke to protect themselves from soul crushing thoughts. I think that's more going on with Donny, than racism. People, especially neighborhood watch people in wealthy communities don't go around shooting people who are minding their own business and have a reason to be in the neighborhood. Donny doesn't think he would do it, nor do I think he would think his neighbors would do it. So in order to process this story, this guy MUST have had a good reason. And the cops didn't arrest him, so even though we don't necessarily know the reason, it has to exist. It simply, HAS to. To believe otherwise, would mean processing that not all people are good, racism does still exist. Living in a wealthy neighborhood will not shield you from people who would do harm to their fellow citizens. He has to explain away this guys actions so that he does not have to think about what HIS neighbors think and do. They can remain good people who will do the right thing. Same sort of stuff when just about any violent crime is committed. "They seemed so nice," "I never would have imagined..." all that type of stuff, that comes out when interviewing neighbors who are forced to have to confront that something bad came to their street.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Hispanic isn't a race, it simply means someone who comes from a Spanish-speaking country. They can be of any racial group.<< Correct. I am Hispanic and I am white. No too many non-white "Hispanics" to be found in places like Spain or Argentina.
