Originally Posted By 182 "If he had never pursued Trayvon for walking through his own neighborhood" It is becoming more and more clear that Martin was the first physically attack Zimmerman I am glad there are people like Zimmerman watching my neighborhood.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 The more things that come out of this story, I'm thinking there's not really a anyone to root for in this story, and both individuals were kind of rotten. And no that does not mean that Zimmerman had any right to shoot Martin.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yes, I'm glad that there are armed people with a history of mental disorders patrolling my neighborhood, too. Gives me the warm fuzzies.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It is becoming more and more clear that Martin was the first physically attack Zimmerman> HOW, Donny, is this "more and more clear?" We still only have Zimmerman's story, repeated by various family members, upholding his side. So what, exactly, has come out making his side "more clear" lately? Hospital records proving his nose was broken? Nope - that hasn't come out, though surely you'd think his side would release them, if they existed. Clearer video from the police station showing blood on his shirt, which almost certainly there would be if he EITHER had a broken nose, OR if Martin was on top of him when he was shot? Nope... video still shows no blood on Zimmerman's shirt. New witness saying he/she saw Martin attack Zimmerman first? Nope. So what, exactly, that constitutes evidence of "more and more clear," as opposed to you convincing yourself "more and more" of what you'd like to believe?
Originally Posted By dshyates The pundits on FOX NEWS saying that it is looking more like Trayvon attacked first?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Probably. Or some website. But based on... ??? Actual evidence? Or... ??? Well, everybody, just everybody (in the echo chamber) is saying so, so it must be true.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The closest thing we have to an actual witness other than Martin and Zimmerman themselves is Martin's girlfriend, who said she heard them exchange words, and then she said it sounded like Martin got pushed. Now, that's an audio witness only, so take that for what it's worth. But the closest thing we have says Martin was pushed first. The other thing to remember is that even if Martin got physical first, Zimmerman could still be guilty of either 2nd degree murder or (more likely) the lesser included charge of manslaughter, if the jury determines that he did not have a REASONABLE (and I guess "reasonable" is their call - ???) fear of losing his life against an unarmed skinny kid who may have hit him a few times, but posed no threat to his life.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Or if he got out of his car and pursued Martin with the intent of intercepting him. Which is why the dispatcher told Zimmerman that he shouldn't get out of his car and follow Martin.
Originally Posted By 182 "Clearer video from the police station showing blood on his shirt, which almost certainly there would be if he EITHER had a broken nose" Do you really beleive that every broken nose bleeds ?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < Do you really beleive that every broken nose bleeds ?> Most punched noses bleed profusely even if they're NOT broken. And if Zimmerman had shot Martin when Martin was on top of him, Zimmerman would have Martin's blood on him. That's called "gravity."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You also haven't answered the question, Donny? What has come out recently that is both a). new and b). actual evidence, that has made you say your conclusion is "more and more clear?" We'll wait.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, like he was asked to, then he wouldn't have been involved in the fight. It doesn't get any simpler than that, and that is why he has been charged with 2nd Degree Murder.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I am glad there are people like Zimmerman watching my neighborhood.<< I'll just point out again how foreign this concept is to me. Who wants live in this bogey men are out to get me mentality? Certainly not me. No one's out to get you, Donny. No one's out to get me. We're just not that important, so stop thinking it all revolves around you and at any moment, someone bad person is going to hurt you or your family. For 99% of us, life doesn't work like that, and for the 1% it does tragically happen to, we have a system in place to deal with it. They're called the police and criminal justice system.
Originally Posted By ecdc Huh, I posted that then a friend posted this fantastic Cracked article that points out similar things. Enjoy, it's good times. <a href="http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html" target="_blank">http://www.cracked.com/article...ink.html</a> >>Do you know a guy who keeps a loaded shotgun under his bed? You know, in case a gang of European terrorists storm into his house and try to kidnap his family? If you throw a bunch of statistics at him about how unlikely that is (for example, that he lives in a low-crime suburb in Wisconsin where there's only been one murder in the last 40 years, that he's statistically more likely to accidentally do something stupid than ward off a criminal and that more people were struck by lightning last year than successfully shot bad guys in the middle of committing crimes), it won't change his mind. Instead, he'll rebut you by citing a news story or an anecdote about a guy who successfully fended off a Die Hard bad guy thanks to his trusty 12-gauge. For him, that single, vivid example completely overrides all talk of statistics or probability.<<
Originally Posted By 182 ecdc said "I'll just point out again how foreign this concept is to me. Who wants live in this bogey men are out to get me mentality? Certainly not me. No one's out to get you, Donny. No one's out to get me. We're just not that important, so stop thinking it all revolves around you and at any moment, someone bad person is going to hurt you or your family." Thats not the only reason you have volunteer watch groups. FIRE-Lost Children-welfare checks-we even had one guy who the watch group saw a broken water pipe that could have flooded his home. watch groups when formed correctly can be a positive in any community. not just boogie man lookout
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Thats not the only reason you have volunteer watch groups.<< Then you don't want someone like Zimmerman, who called 911 an inordinate amount of times to report " suspicious" people. You want rational, responsible people. And you definitely don't need to be armed to help a lost child or check in on your sweet old lady neighbor.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "watch groups when formed correctly can be a positive in any community." Zimmerman is an example of a watch that wasn't formed correctly. You're contradicting yourself.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb As the parent of teens who wear hoodies I am really glad we don't have a guy like George Zimmerman playing Neighborhood Watch in my neighborhood.
