Originally Posted By Donny Well it's clear that Zimm was following this kid but what I want to know is Did this kid approach Zimm and start a fight ?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I am treading into this discussion against my better judgment. The Stand Your Ground Law in Florida was opposed by many including police agencies when it was passed. But, the Legislature overwhelming supported it and it should be noted that it was promoted (unsurprisingly) by the National Rifle Association. The bill was sponsored by a Republican lawmaker in Ocala, Florida...some might say a redneck community (actually, a very beautiful part of the state) and highly Republican. In order to try and pull some of the "politics" out of the discussion it should also be noted that the bill in the Florida Legislature was cosponsored by a Democrat from Broward County...a highly Democratic portion of the State. And, the bill was signed by then Governor Jeb Bush...which might be a future campaign talking point. I think everyone needs to slow down and let the process play out. Stand Your Ground might be the argument that keeps him out of jail right now but when the facts come out in a court of law I suspect this guy will be found in violation of that law and he will end up being punished accordingly.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Donny, you can listen to the 911 tapes online. It's pretty clear what happened.
Originally Posted By Donny Tom I notice on this forum the word "clear" is used for things that are not clear at all.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate.>> Then the 911 calls made by Zimmerman and the neighbors who heard Martin screaming for help would need to be altered by the Sanford PD in order for the clips being played on TV and radio to be "totally inaccurate." <<Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics.>> No... you're not going to "discuss specifics" because your lawyer told you not to, for fear of incriminating yourself and/or your son. <<However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best.>> Again... are we listening to doctored 911 recordings of what was transpiring outside these neighbors' houses? Is that what you're claiming, Mr. Zimmerman? That those 911 recordings have been altered? That the screams for help in the background were not real? <<At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.>> George Zimmerman admitted to Sanford PD that he was following Martin! It's on the 911 call to Sanford PD that *he* made! And how, precisely, did he end up shooting Martin -- who was unarmed -- if he didn't 'confront' him first? Are you suggesting, Mr. Zimmerman, that Martin went up to your son's car and dragged him out of the car, and that the shouts for help we're hearing on the 911 recordings from neighbors was your son calling out as Martin was beating him up? Then your son somehow managed to push Martin off of him and pull out his gun and shoot Martin dead? Is that what you think happened? Yeah, sure. A skinny unarmed teenager is going to be able to drag an older man who weighs 100 pounds more than he does out of his car, push him to the ground, and beat him up. Yeah. Right. Happens every single day. Mr. Zimmerman... you're a lying sack of you-know-what.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Well it's clear that Zimm was following this kid but what I want to know is Did this kid approach Zimm and start a fight ?>> Interesting... Donny is calling him "Zimm" as if he knows him or was aware of him before this incident. Donny... I know you live in the Orlando area. Do you live and/or work in Sanford? Do you actually know George Zimmerman? I'm very much surprised that you're defending him so strongly.
Originally Posted By Donny I am defending the idea that you see someone in your neihborhood you should observe and report.In my case I would probbly do a "walk and talk" to ask (Nicely) "hey are you lost and how can I help you" and I am known for carring a gun.I have notice in my life people who are up to no good hate it when you stare at them and worse when you talk to them.
Originally Posted By jasmine7 But he did more than just observe and report. The 911 dispatcher TOLD him not to continue to follow Trayvon, but he blatantly ignored that and pursued him.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox The Retreat at Twin Lakes is the gated community where this all took place. Construction began in 2006 and was completed in 2008. It's a small neighborhood of attached townhomes, between 45 and 50 buildings, five to six townhomes per building. And many of these townhomes are available to rent. Is this where you live, Donny? Are you renting a townhome at Retreat at Twin Lakes?
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I have notice in my life people who are up to no good hate it when you stare at them and worse when you talk to them.>> And I have noticed in my life when a man larger than me is staring at me, following me, and then approaching me, I hate that as well. Because I'm a petite woman who would not be able to fend off a large man the size of Zimmerman intent on sexually assaulting me. This situation is not dissimilar, Donny. Trayvor Martin was a skinny black kid. George Zimmerman was a white adult weighing 100 pounds more than him. The kid had every right to be scared of a bigger white guy staring at him and following him. You have no idea what it's like to be in this situation, Donny. No idea at all.
Originally Posted By barboy There is NO fixed or specified time to establish a forethought/planned murder. Pass is correct but I'm just putting it in my own words............in theory one could plan a murder in less than 1 second or take 5 years. The amount of time it takes to assemble a plan to kill is completely irrelevant----- what is relevant is the actual planning.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Also, why the need to call the police 46 times since January? It's only March 20th, so, in 3 months he's called about 15 times a month, and that averages about every other day. Is there really that much crime in this gated community? I think there is a tremendous amount of spin on this story, and I don't believe Robert Zimmerman's story. I will reserve judgement, but right now, there are serious red flags. It's like the "but I have black friends" argument. If George Zimmerman were such a stand-up citizen, where was all of that before? Based on the 911 calls, and the testimonies, I'm not buying his father's "boy-scout" image of his son.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Well it's clear that Zimm was following this kid> And also clear that Zimmerman's father blatantly lied in his statement. You glossed over that. <but what I want to know is Did this kid approach Zimm and start a fight ?> How does that make any sense? Why would a skinny 17 year old who was just walking back to his dad's house from the 7-11 with a snack start a fight with a guy 100 pounds bigger? If Zimmerman hadn't followed him, the two would never have even had contact with each other. And Martin was heard yelling on the 911 calls, obviously in pain, before any gunshots. It's certainly possible that Martin may have started defending HIMSELF at that point - wouldn't you, if someone 100 pounds bigger than you was hurting you for some unknown reason? - and then Zimmerman considered that justification for shooting him. But Zimmerman initiated this whole situation, and Martin would have been wholly justified in defending himself if Zimmerman was hurting him (as he obviously was.)
Originally Posted By mawnck >>you can listen to the 911 tapes online. It's pretty clear what happened.<< Here we go again. How many times are we going to go down this road before we learn better?
Originally Posted By Donny I do know what it's like to have a creepy person named skinnerbox asking me where I live over and over.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <Also, why the need to call the police 46 times since January?>> Actually, that was 46 calls since Jan 2011. Which would be less than one call per week. But even so, for a small gated community of less than 300 townhomes, that's a lot of 'suspicious activity' for someone to report to the police, especially if they don't do their neighborhood watch but a few times a week.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper "I think everyone needs to slow down and let the process play out." Apparently that isn't going to happen. Enter Al Sharpton who will bring some levity to the situation.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I do know what it's like to have a creepy person named skinnerbox asking me where I live over and over.>> Another smartmouth false equivalency retort. Yeah, being intimated by someone staring at you, following you, and then approaching you is the same as a participate on a discussion board asking an important question repeatedly. Wow. Bet they teach this in the police academies across the country! And you still have failed to answer my question, Donny. You claimed to be living in the Orlando area. You also claimed that your apartment community has a guy doing neighborhood watch who carries a gun. Just like George Zimmerman does. Then you start defending George Zimmerman tooth and nail, and even referred to him as "Zimm" as if you're personally acquainted with the guy. Well... do you know him? Do you know him because you live at The Retreat at Twin Lakes? Given your staunch defense of Zimmerman, it's a logical question to ask.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The odds of Donny living in that same community are not high. I wouldn't really call Sanford part of Orlando. I'd say Sanford is to Orlando what Riverside is to Los Angeles. Sanford is about halfway between Orlando and the eastern beaches.
