Originally Posted By Donny Wow Skinnerbox if you start from post #1 and read up you can see I have not made a final judgment on Zimm but you have made one on me you said "Donny has once again demonstrated a very strong predilection for racist thinking." Do you know me and how I feel about black people ?
Originally Posted By queenbee <a href="http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts-063243901--abc-news.html" target="_blank">http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-m...ews.html</a> Given the information in this phone call and the statements made by Zimmerman himself in the other call, I think self defense or "standing your ground" will be a very hard argument to make.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Do you know me and how I feel about black people ?<< Because race issues remain deeply important to me, I'm using this as a jumping off point, not as a commentary on Donny. Very few people think they're racist. Racism is much more about ignorance than overt dislike or hatred. Perhaps a better label is prejudice, or maybe we need a new one since racism is such a charged word. But racism is plenty real and permeates our culture. Voting for Obama or having black friends doesn't absolve one of racist tendencies or thinking.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Enter Al Sharpton who will bring some levity to the situation.>> Whenever there's a camera, you'll find Al Sharpton.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I had a college professor that claimed that everybody has some inherent racism in their DNA. I challenged her on that regularly but in reality I know that I have had some prejudices that have been overcome in time by associating with others not like myself. And, moving from the midwest to South Florida was probably a step toward that. I probably has some other prejudices that have not been overcome yet. But, I do hold myself to a higher standard when it comes to behavior so I hope I'm not viewed as overtly prejudiced, racist, etc.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 A group of white, black, hispanic or Asian youths gather somewhere, hangout and are respectful to the surroundings, no problem. Those same groups start fights, destroy property, intimidate people, then yeah I'm going to be a little more prejudiced.
Originally Posted By ecdc The irony of Donny's defense of "Zimm" (seriously?) is that responsible gun owners should be running away from this guy as fast as they can. He represents everything they insist doesn't happen. By every account he was over zealous at best.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'd add, I'm not calling for this guy's head; the issue here is he hasn't even been arrested. I maintain that if the situation had been reversed, a black kid would've been handcuffed in the spot.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I maintain that if the situation had been reversed, a black kid would've been handcuffed in the spot.<< Absolutely.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Those same groups start fights, destroy property, intimidate people, then yeah I'm going to be a little more prejudiced.> Well, no. If they've actually done something wrong, then you're judging them for having done something wrong, not pre-judging them. <I had a college professor that claimed that everybody has some inherent racism in their DNA.> I think that's probably true. It's probably hard-wired into us, to accept our own "tribe" moreso than that "other" tribe. That doesn't mean we should accept it in ourselves, any more than we accept other negative human traits, like, say, selfishness. We all have selfishness in us somewhere. The trick is to recognize it and check it when we find that it's rearing its ugly head. I wouldn't call myself a "selfish person" in general, full stop, but I fully cop to having done things (or almost done things) that were selfish. The trick is to recognize that - hopefully before you make that decision - and choose a better path. I think we probably all have racism somewhere in our DNA also. The trick is not to deny it - i.e. "Why, I don't have a racist bone in my body!!" - but rather to recognize it and check it when it rears its ugly head.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Racism is just an evolutionary throwback to a time when recognizing your competition was essential to survival. The more different someone looks or acts the more likely that they are an "other" which puts you on an elevated alert while you figure out how much of a threat they are to you. The common racist statement that "some of my best friends are..." is just an acknowledgement of this. I know this person so of course I'm not uneasy around him, but that guy over there looks different and acts different and I don't know him so I'm going to be more nervous than if he looked and acted like me. When you aren't driven by fear then you're much more open to accepting others than being threatened by them. Zimmerman was driven by fear, hence his need to carry a gun. Racism is based on fear, not intellect or rational thought.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Looking at Tayvon Martin's face, I can't help but think "he looks like such a nice boy" and I guess it's the mom in me, but I get teary eyed thinking about this young life cut so short. And it angers me that this paranoid man could have gotten away with taking this young life if left up to the Sanford PD, and may still. Just tragic.
Originally Posted By Donny ecdc= If zimm whent up to this boy in a hateful manner (bully) and said who are you,why are you hear. then I would consider that wrong and threatening and to me it would take away from the stand your ground defense.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Zimmerman disregarded the 911 operator's instructions to NOT follow Tayvon Martin. At that point, ignoring clear instructions, Zimmerman went after him. There is a witness on the phone (Martin's girlfriend) and I think Zimmerman is looking at a long time in prison. However, I am confounded that he hasn't been arrested.
Originally Posted By dshyates You guys just don't understand. He was wearing a hoodie and brandishing Skittles AND iced tea. Lord knows what he could have done with them.
Originally Posted By dshyates As far as an arrest, it has gotten more complicated. You can imagine the rather bumbling Sanford PD with the FBI and the FDLE eyeballing them. They are a wee bit tense.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <ecdc= If zimm whent up to this boy in a hateful manner (bully) and said who are you,why are you hear. then I would consider that wrong and threatening and to me it would take away from the stand your ground defense.> From the ABC news link posted earlier: (From Martin's phone call to his girlfriend): "Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone." Also from that link: "Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "However, I am confounded that he hasn't been arrested." As I pointed out earlier, if another agency gets involved, and apparently that's happened, they'll start from scratch. If authorities now involved are going to do this right, they need to take great pains to do exactly that and avoid the vigilante approach so prevalent right now.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>And they shall not carry weapons<< There we are. Observe and report, not track and kill.
