Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "You need a scorecard in Florida. Jamaicans don't like to be categorized as Blacks. Blacks don't like the Dominicans. No one likes the Haitians. And if a white says anything about any of the other three they will all put their differences aside for a few minutes and whoop your butt. Then you move to the problems between Venezuelans and Colombians, Brazilians and the Venezuelans. Cubans who get confused with all the others, etc." You could say the same thing here in New York too. I know you were being satirical, but it's kind of true. You add the Puerto Ricans into the mix, and they also have issues with Dominicans. It seems like if your Dominican or Haitian, you're at the bottom of the barrel. There isn't a very big Mexican popluation yet, but it's growing, so I don't know how they are viewed yet. Needless to say, there is lots of racism and nationalism going on with all groups.
Originally Posted By Donny So with all the agencies investigating this why hasn't zimm been arrested ?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So with all the agencies investigating this why hasn't zimm been arrested ?" How many times and how many people are going to ask this question? I don't think Donny's motives are pure here, but the answer is the same as I gave at least twice. Read the thread Donny.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Read the thread Donny.>> His problem isn't reading, it's comprehension. I'm utterly baffled that anyone has the gall to defend Zimmerman. He had the weapon! He pursued Martin. He killed Martin. He admitted to each of these posits or evidenced on the 911 tapes. He also defied lawenforcement's direction not to pursue. It takes a serious lack of rationality to not understand who the perpetrator was. The logic his defenders use says one thing though, in Florida, you aren't guilty unless someone sees it. So, just make sure you are the only survivor, no one saw, and claim self defense. So sorry, too bad. *whistling and walking away*
Originally Posted By Donny <a href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sanfordfl.gov/inves...ting.pdf</a>
Originally Posted By Donny What about media reenactments of the shooting incident? Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The trouble for you, Donny, is that the phone calls already paint a different story than the Sanford PD, who I think are about to be in a heap of trouble. The police chief has already had a vote of no confidence go against him.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think the information that Donny shared in post 147 provided by the City Manager of Sanford, needs to be read by everyone. As I've said in other venues, the police officers don't have carte blanche when it comes to arresting people. There must be cause and it must be in conjunction with Florida law. The Stand Your Ground law has, as predicted by many law enforcement agencies, created these types of situations. While it was a nice PR move of the Sanford City Commission to hold the No Confidence vote on their police chief it should be noted that he is taking the fall for something not entirely in his control. He must follow state law, no matter if that law is popular or not. The City Manager has not fired the police chief as of yet and I suspect that he will not lest the City of Sanford face a million dollar lawsuit that they would most certainly lose. Let the process play out. While this is an unthinkable tragedy maybe a small glimmer of good will come out of this in that the Florida Legislature will be compelled to correct this awful legislation.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I posted the applicable Florida law for a reason a while back, as well as made a comment about vigilantism. When I did that, I wasn't defending this guy, just putting out what governs this scenario. I'm not aligning myself with Donny by any means, but people who are calling for Zimmerman's head and don't want him "walking the streets" need to educate themselves about the backwards laws in Florida. Maybe this episode will cause some Floridians to think twice about voting for some of the idiot legislators who pass these kinds of laws.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The 911 tapes and witness statements should present enough probable cause to put Zimmerman into custody now. I would think that there is a difference between "stand your ground" and "pursue and attempt to detain."
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The 911 tapes and witness statements should present enough probable cause to put Zimmerman into custody now. I would think that there is a difference between "stand your ground" and "pursue and attempt to detain." Not necessarily under whatever Florida law might be in that area. Moreover, there were only two eyewitnesses, and one's dead.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder So Donny, put up or shut up. You're okay that Martin is dead?
Originally Posted By Donny We still don't know if Travon charged and or struck Zimm ? The 911 recordeings only give us a fraction into the whole event.Even worse there have been alot of wild speculations
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>We still don't know if Travon charged<< Donny, I'll type this real slow. The. 911. Operator. Told. Zimmerman. NOT. TO. PURSUE. Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman ignored that directive. That's not wild speculation. That is recorded evidence.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Didn't the girlfriend actually hear the initial conversation on her phone call with Trayvor? Didn't she hear Trayvor say to Zimmerman, "Why are you following me?" with Zimmerman responding, "Why are you here?" or something to that effect? That is my understanding of the events as she heard them unfold on her phone. If that is the case, then Zimmerman failed to identify himself to Trayvor as a neighborhood watch participant. He failed to tell Trayvor why he was following him. That's the main problem with this situation. Zimmerman failed to follow the proper protocol that all formerly trained neighborhood watch participants use, which Zimmerman hadn't received: <a href="http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php" target="_blank">http://www.thegrio.com/special...tion.php</a> <> George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmerman's claim that he killed in self-defense as a neighborhood watch captain. Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch -- it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon. "In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket," Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens' Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. "Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon." Despite this, Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot -- all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies. "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group. "We've got approximately 25,000 neighborhood watches registered now, and the neighborhood watches out there far exceed that number," Chris Tutko, the Director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association told theGrio. "We give people the ability to register if they want to. What registration does is give groups a repository of resources." Registration also pairs groups with local law enforcement mentors, who sometimes run background checks on members. <> So... Zimmerman is a 'lone wolf' wanna-be cop who took matters into his own hands. He ignored a direct instruction from the police dispatcher *not* to follow Martin. Mistake #1 He failed to identify himself as neighborhood watch when he first spoke to Martin. Mistake #2 When Martin tried to run away from Zimmerman, Zimmerman chased him down. Mistake #3 Zimmerman eventually shot Martin, behind the townhomes, not on the street where Zimmerman first approached Martin. How, exactly, was Zimmerman "standing his ground" if he shot Martin behind the townhomes and not on the street where he first saw him and approached him? These *known* events do not pass the sniff test for 'stand your ground.' Not one bit.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan And there is no way, no way at all on God's green earth, if some black kid pursued and gunned down somebody that he would not have been arrested on the spot. Heads will roll over this, and they should. It's outrageous that Zimmerman is not behind bars already.
