Originally Posted By crapshoot <<You mean like the ones that happen almost daily at DL because the place is frequently overcrowded?>> Overcrowding is an issue, but no Disneyland attraction has anywhere near the wait times and limited number of available passes that Racer's Fastpass system puts guests through. Add to that the unbearable wait times for Standby. Carsland is a public relations nightmare.
Originally Posted By believe >>>>>>>>>>>"The subs reopened in 2007, just -FIVE- years ago. And the amount rumored, that went into it, was some 70-100 million dollars!" Well he did say that it's the most expensive attraction to operate at the resort and has a very low throughput of only 800 guests per hour, so there is incentive to replace the attraction. It does sound a bit far fetched, but if you figure it might be another 5 years before anything new opens in that spot it'll probably be time for them to go or at least updated by then anyway.<<<<<<<<<<< What about Rocket Rods? That lasted about 2 years - and cost about $30 mil. or about $15m per year. Subs cost $70m which so far, is about $14m per year.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>The whole mentality of - how do we put in attractions as cheaply as possible and then squeeze every last dime out of the guest is exactly the opposite of Walt's approach.<< Oh dear. Step away from the Disney Kool-Aid, please. You've had way too much. >>My contention is that Carsland is much more successful than what was planned for.<< Won't last. The novelty will wear off and the crowds will return to less insane levels. >>Carsland is a public relations nightmare.<< Links please? Cause I haven't heard anyone griping. New attraction, big crowds .... Sounds like par for the course to me.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Overcrowding is an issue, but no Disneyland attraction has anywhere near the wait times and limited number of available passes that Racer's Fastpass system puts guests through." That will subside by next year. DL has been in the same situation many times when a hot new ride opened there.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >My contention is that Carsland is much more successful than what was planned for.<< "Won't last. The novelty will wear off and the crowds will return to less insane levels." It's already happening. Miceage reported that standby wait times this past Saturday dropped to 80 minutes.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<Carsland is a public relations nightmare.>> Only with you crapshoot. That kind of popularity is not a PR nightmare, it is a success story.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan When DCA is deserted, it's a problem. When DCA is packed, it's a problem.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<It's already happening. Miceage reported that standby wait times this past Saturday dropped to 80 minutes.>> Yes and on Wednesday 6/27 at 1:20 pm: Radiator Springs Racers: Stand By: 145 minutes(2h 25 min) Fastpass: Gone SINGLE: 50 minutes. Really? Do you see any conceivable way in which RSR had a 80 minute standby on a Saturday, unless it was at 11:59pm.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan But how is it a PR nightmare? I think it's a PR dream scenario. If people are lining up for hours to experience it, that's PR gold. Will some people complain about it? Sure. But they could't realistically have expected a brand new major attraction, heavily promoted, to have short wait times, could they? I waited almost 4 hours to ride Indy for the first time. Line stretched out into the hub area. I never dreamed of marching down to City Hall to gripe.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The old DCA double standard still exists even after the "fix". Overcrowding, 4 hour waits for new attractions, stale boring attractions that a handful of people care about are all just fine as long as they're at DL. If those things are present at DCA the sky is falling.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I am reminded when Indy first opened, before Fastpass. We lived in San Diego at the time and visited DL once per year or so. Anywho ... I didn't ride Indy for years after it opened, until the lines were reasonable. The was no way I was going to stand in line for 2-3 hours. So now it sounds like we'll wait a few years before returning.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Really? Do you see any conceivable way in which RSR had a 80 minute standby on a Saturday, unless it was at 11:59pm." Well here's the photo that Miceage claims was taken on Saturday. The standby wait time is clearly 80 minutes. <a href="http://datelinedisneyland.smugmug.com/DisneylandResort/2012/06-25-12-Edited-Update-Photos/i-Pbxpz7m/0/X2/IMG1151-X2.jpg" target="_blank">http://datelinedisneyland.smug...1-X2.jpg</a> Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<If those things are present at DCA the sky is falling.>> YES! And the Cove Bar does not open until Noon! That is the real travesty in this whole saga.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "I "sub"mit that for those who grouse about the Nemo overlay being so underwhelming and silly, too bad. The original show was just as silly." Ignoring the "tooning of the parks" factor, Nemo is far better than the original. "Carsland is a public relations nightmare." Like Adventureland when Indy opened? "But what I find amusing is the debate over the 'cost effectiveness' of a ride and how that should perhaps determine it's residence in the park. Ridiculous. As though Disneyland is about to go broke." What's ridiculous is the idea that cost effectiveness shouldn't be a consideration. Believe me, even Walt didn't ignore this. "But something like the 'smart highway demonstration' concept I suggested is what it would take to make it truly futuristic." Futuristic. But boring. "My contention is that Carsland is much more successful than what was planned for. And due to that level of success, a new raft of negative guest complaints will follow." What was Yogi Berra's quote? "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." "The old DCA double standard still exists even after the 'fix'. Overcrowding, 4 hour waits for new attractions, stale boring attractions that a handful of people care about are all just fine as long as they're at DL. If those things are present at DCA the sky is falling." Seriously. I was beginning to think even the harshest critics would have come on board. But there's always a few.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Really? Do you see any conceivable way in which RSR had a 80 minute standby on a Saturday, unless it was at 11:59pm.> Yes. APs are blocked on Saturdays.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Carsland is a public relations nightmare.> You've got to be kidding. Everything I've read says guest reaction is over-the-top positive. And just about everyone who goes to DL understands that new attractions equals long waits. This reminds me of Lutz (and some people here) saying that the subs would be a p.r. nightmare... 4 hour lines forever... only a fraction of the day's visitors on a busy day could even ride at all, resulting in massive guest dissatisfaction, leading to storming City Hall with pitchforks... Never happened. The subs, slow-loading as they are, found their natural level of line-tolerance after the initial wave. ALL attractions do that. Most people wouldn't wait even one hour for the subs any more, so - voila! - if the line looks that long, people go elsewhere. Some people whose kids just have to ride Dumbo will wait 90 minutes for that. I never would, but some people do. That's why they just doubled it at the MK. POTC, supreme people-eater that it is, used to get 90-120 minute lines regularly at busy periods all through the 70's. So did the Matterhorn when it was the only coaster and had single bobsleds. Splash and Space are regularly an hour or more to this day. After the initial wave subsides and word of mouth gets out, ALL attractions find their natural level of line-wait-tolerance. If the line is longer than you think is worth it, you come back later, or the next day if you're a tourist, or your next trip if you're a local. If you really, really want to ride, you wait. No pitchforks.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost This might have been addressed already (sorry, I didn't have time to read the whole thing), but the idea that Nemo would be scraped for something else at this stage of the game is bordering on ludicrous. It is new and came into being because there was so much uproar about 20K being closed down. They could have done the same thing with that space that they did in WDW and filled in the lagoon and replaced it with a playground. It is not going anywhere soon. They didn't spend that kind of money to just decide, Oh well, that was a bad idea. Too slow, too many people want to ride it. What? It's such a success that it makes it difficult to get on it without a wait? I wish I had a little of that failure during my lifetime. 20K would have still been around if it hadn't been for the ride vehicles because there was always a line there every time I went...at least in WDW. I cannot speak for DL, but my guess is that the lines are created because of the limited load speed and they knew that was going to happen when they built it. I don't understand the kind of reasoning that something is "crap" because they personally don't or won't stay in a queue line for over 5 minutes. There are many more to take their place.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I will attest to the fact that before the Subs closed there wasn't much of a wait, even on busy summer days. Even if there is a line of any sort now for Nemo the ride is only cycling 800 people per hour. For comparison the capacity of the Magic Eye theater is 500 and Captain Eo is 17 minutes, so that's roughly a whopping 1,500 people per hour - almost double the Subs.
