Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But what does not help is the new fans. The people who do not know any better and defend Disney for the toons. This is particularly bad amongst the Europeans.
Originally Posted By u k fan ^^^ Perhaps that's because ultimately as a family destination WDW still runs rings around anything in Europe except DLP. My first trip to WDW was in 1999 so I can't comment on the pre 1995 thing, but even I know that there are 100 things for WDW to do before they even contemplate another gate!!!
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<But what does not help is the new fans. The people who do not know any better and defend Disney for the toons.>> But if they're new and don't know any better why are they to blame. If we're going to lay blame at the feet of any segment of fans wouldn't it be the ones who have been visiting WDW pre-95, have seen quality diminish, yet still go back time and again?
Originally Posted By u k fan There may come a time when the Disney old-timers have to concede that what people actually want nowadays is Toons and are less bothered about the quality of the towels. But that will be Disney's fault imho for marketing themselves that way. When the average person thinks Disney they think Mickey, they think Princesses, they think about what they saw at movie theaters growing up. When Disney market on nostalgia they market themselves on people's experiences growing up and for most that's Toons. Toons are what people have come to expect, it's what the new guests want/expect. I'm not saying it's right or wrong (I think I'm in the middle), but when people think Disney they don't think Space Mountain or even POTC they think Mickey and co!!!
Originally Posted By Disneyday I guess that Disney's deal with all of the characters is from all the "research" they do about what people want to see at the parks. I would like to see some more original rides like the Haunted Mansion, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. It's like what Jim Hill said about Beastly Kingdom. They may be designing that again for the distant future, but this time it has to include Disney characters and/or franchises.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> have seen quality diminish, yet still go back time and again?<<< Fair point, but I no longer do
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo UKFAN and DisneyDay, I do not dispute that people want toons. But they did in Walt's day too. But do you think people ever said in a Marketing survery "Hey, I want to go down a waterfall into a pirate battle" or "How about instead of a bus, let's have a monorail". It may be the toons that draw people in, but it used to be the "cool" factor, attention to detail, service quality and cleanliness that kept people coming back for more. I used to hear over and over again, before the marketing, how Disney made magic and people did not understand how. Well it was the ethos I indicated above coupled with multifaceted experiences. If it is all about toons, why should I fly 3000 or 6000 miles or go to PAris, when I could simply take my kids to Disney on Ice? It's be cheaper and easier. Frankly, I have lost faith.
Originally Posted By dshyates I find it odd that they are letting Bubba from Arkansas design the parks now instead of all the professionals they have on staff. Do they really think Bubba's ideas are better than the Imagineers?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Anytime someone expresses interest in a Villians park, isn't that basically saying "gimme toons!"? I kinda feel that way about Beastly Kingdom too. Never been a fan of the idea myself; I have little to no interest in mythical creatures. That's just more "cool" toons in my book.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad I think the 5th gate will be at pleasure island and the theme will be shopping....LOL Honestly though, all Disney has to do is go back to the basics of quality product in a clean venue at a reasonable price. I can't see a 5th gate until they stabilize what they are doing in the parks that they already have. Lately it has been a constant parade of changes. Trying to build a new park while in this cost cutting mode would just result in a low quality product.
Originally Posted By dshyates "I think the 5th gate will be at pleasure island and the theme will be shopping....LOL" Well, since the only ride under construction property wide is an upcharge ride at DtD, you aren't far off the mark.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer The only thing I can say is once upon a time many companies had pride in their product. They made a good profit by offering a good product. The draw was the product. Now you have companies telling us why their product is so great and cool (marketing, Powerpoint), you have bean counters (excel spreadsheets, projections) telling what they think will happen, then you have exec's with PowerPoint presentations, company mindsets (that may not be representative of anything the remotely what the customer demands and business/industry buzzwords. Maybe I'm not the average consumer but exceptional service to me should be transparent. It's the remembering of my name, the genuine smile when they help mom and dad calm an upset child. It's not a "10" on a survey or someone asking/telling me they have provided exceptional customer service, or in order to help me better they need to transfer me or run to someone else for an approval to let me do something common sense dictates anyone can handle. Surveys are only as good as the person who wrote them. When someone is experiencing a park for the first time they may not think of or realize some of the pretty cool ideas (Take Western River Expedition) that have not materialized. If the survey asks me "The Enchanted Tiki Room is a gazillion years old and has really boring old music, would adding Stitch chasing Iago around a laser show while really cool 3d sound effects of flies sound like an improvement?" that would be a loaded question. If I've never been to California before and come from Antartica, I may not realize there are beaches, the Winchester Mystery Mansion, etc. If asked what to do, I may answer "Let's go to the McDonald's" since I don't know any better. Now if they presented me with cardboard cutouts with Wall-E on a C-Ticket dark ride and I didn't experience a 15 minute omnimover/boat ride with 500 AA's (With Generic Robots or Wall-E) I'd be more than happy with the C-Ticket Wall-E. Given the choice between an E-Ticket Generic Robot experience and a C-Ticket Wall-E riding them back to back. I may settle for the non-marketing tie in Robot ride...
