Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Promises, promises can just destroy your life, Malin. And in this particular case I don't recall any promise being made about an animatronic figure with a projected face. I believe it was mostly wishful thinking and speculation brought about by what happened in Florida with the new dwarf coaster.
Originally Posted By Malin Let me refresh your memory Witches... *** New animatronics with projected faces and much more fluid animation than the 1980’s figures they replace will debut when the ride reopens in early July.*** <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://micechat.com/65726-parks/">http://micechat.com/65726-parks/</a>
Originally Posted By Yookeroo LiceRat? I'm not too fond of that site, but is this the way we want to go? Or maybe Poe's Law is applicable here? Is perlster a MiceChat hater or is this parody? (I don't feel strongly enough about that site to bother to keep straight the lovers and haters....well, mostly, someone as over-the-top like Peter Pan can manage to make an impression for better or worse).
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: But Mice Chat is a fan site--along with many others--which only report what they have heard and none of them can be relied upon as the final word. It's fun to read the many speculations that all the fan sites put out there but that doesn't mean we hold their feet to the fire over what they have to say. So unless an official announcement from Disney has been made about any projections on animatronics, we don't necessarily believe it's going to happen. Even then Disney sometimes changes its mind.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "And -- it still ends with the 'Wha-wha-wha-hoo-hoo-eeeee!' right as you head out that upper door." That's the "Goofy Yell." And it's always been a real head scratcher to me that that was included in Alice in the first place. Yes they've kept it in each of the various iterations now. Weird, but at least consistent.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But Mice Chat is a fan site--along with many others--which only report what they have heard and none of them can be relied upon as the final word." I think they're a bit more than that. They definately try to persuade opinion and position themselves as having exclusive inside information. I don't want to overstate their influence, but historically the site has had a very faithful following among the DL is going down the tubes crowd and they seem to relish it.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 New Video of Alice: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJS1K6QG66E">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...1K6QG66E</a> I don't see a rear projection Queen of Hearts, but it wasn't easy to see that such a figure wouldn't make much sense in Alice anyway. I think they did a good job of blending the projections with the 3-D figures, the ride seems more 'alive' now. Heard there was going to be a chesire cat head projection on the door heading out to the ramp, maybe they didn't get it to work. >>I think they're a bit more than that. They definately try to persuade opinion and position themselves as having exclusive inside information.<< More than that, they pretended that it was certain that the Nemo Subs would close. They seem to delight in throwing a monkey wrench in whatever disney has planned. A lot of the post-Al updates are *very* hard to read grammar and style-wise, and I don't read them much anymore as I know that a lot of it is fabricated and recycled old rumors. >>I don't want to overstate their influence, but historically the site has had a very faithful following among the DL is going down the tubes crowd and they seem to relish it.<< I don't think Miceage has very much influence, if any. Disney does tons of guest surveys, and they have the detailed attendance figures. A lot of the discussion Miceage is non-sensical, and the articles are written from the viewpoint as though Disney brass read and Miceage and actually care, comes off a bit high handed. The updates and stuff is written to garner web traffic from those looking for sensational stories, and to try to prod Disney to do stuff (or to get revenge on Disney), the more experienced and discriminating fan will realize that Miceage isn't worth reading for real info. I think that if it is true that Miceage lost their invites to media events, then they might think, "well, Disney doesn't want us around and we don't have the inside track as a result, so we'll just make-up stories that will jeer the fans."
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 >>It's fun to read the many speculations that all the fan sites put out there but that doesn't mean we hold their feet to the fire over what they have to say.<< It was fun to Miceage when it was at least believable that the updates were based in reality. It's not fun to hear Dusty Sage announce that DHS is getting a Carsland and that it will "finally" make DHS a worthy theme park. It's not fun reading on Miceage that the Nemo Subs are getting closed permanently and that people should hurry up and ride the attraction, then ride Miceage's berating comments. It's not fun reading snarky comments poking at Disney, such as the 'Alice in Blunderland' stuff. It's not fun watching Knott's get undue and lavish praise while Disney is over-criticized. It's not fun watching Miceage relentlessly pursue their agenda while their fans are left out in the cold. It would be closer to forgivable if the Miceage rumors made sense, and were more creative and aesthetically appropriate for a Disney theme park. That would be fun, instead of stuff that doesn't have even a remote possibility of happening.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 It's not only Miceage, to be fair, but Jim Hill as well. The guy said that Disney invented a 'miniaturized' video camera for the rear-projection animatronics in the Dwarfs. WDI did it with Buzz, and the dwarfs heads are bigger. But that doesn't matter as they say they run a fiber optic cable from the projector, up to the face screen. I believe that with the Dwarfs they were thinking of putting in a two projector fail safe system, both projectors feeding into the same fiber optic cable, so if one malfunctions, then the other can take over. You don't want to put something as heavy as projector in a head anyway . . . If you just read Miceage then you don't get the whole picture, Miceage didn't report that Scott Trowbridge has taken over WDI's efforts in Anaheim, as they ostensibly don't "agree" with that news, and don't want a big Star Wars presence in Anaheim as it would mean more $$ for DLR, and less of a need for pass holders.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 >>That's the "Goofy Yell." And it's always been a real head scratcher to me that that was included in Alice in the first place. Yes they've kept it in each of the various iterations now. Weird, but at least consistent.<< The Goofy yah-hoo is kinda the Disney version of a Wilhem scream. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_stock_sounds_effects_in_Disney_films">http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/L...ey_films</a> Maybe they were going to put in the disembodied head of the chesire cat, maybe with a 'don't lose your head' type of quote, on the doors to the outside, and perhaps due to the sensibilities of DL being a family park, or problems with outside light wrecking the illusion, they didn't do it. But it is certainly the smoke rings seen around chesire's head in the prior incarnation of the ride.
Originally Posted By doombuggy "so we'll just make-up stories that will jeer the fans." which you are just as guilty of. You make up stories to be the center of attention. You don't get to bash MC about lying when you are no better. Cinderella being the first Disney princess, that's why the 60th will be around her....pphhfffttt.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "and perhaps due to the sensibilities of DL being a family park" Doubt it was that. Around the corner they send you to Hell!
Originally Posted By perlster Ah, the poor LiceRat lover's little feelings got hurt - don't' worry, the Intertubes have a place just for you - at [link to unauthorized site removed]
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: By now--after all these years--I should think that most of us should know, by now, that we have to take a grain of salt with everything we read on Disney fan sites. So much of what is reported is speculation or wishful thinking. To expect certain things to actually happen based on what one has read on a fan site is to set one-self up for disappointment. To become angry with the fan site's who reported on these speculations and rumors is to become unreasonable. All we should really do is relate to these items as if they were nothing more than interesting possibilities. To do anything further than that is to borrow trouble.
Originally Posted By Malin Let me re print some qoutes from a private message that I had received from Dusty after I made a comment on the site about it's crediblity slipping away regarding the Subs closure... And you tell me afterwards if the tone and response is justified by a fan site only posting rumours and speculation. *** Dude, I don't know what your issue is. But posting that our credibility is slipping away on Norm's article today is a load of crap. We write about what the parks are doing at the moment it happens. Disney changes things on a dime and always have. This is not the first time and won't be the last time that we've written about something that later gets changed or spun by Disney in a another way. But you still don't have all the info (Iger didn't deny that the ride has been closed mostly as a budget saving move, which it is). *** *** Taking pot shots at us from your fortress of solitude isn't helpful, nor will it stop us from continuing to share rumors and information from actual Disney insiders who DO know what is going on with the company, even if you don't like it or can't comprehend that Disney changes their mind and direction all the freakin' time. Here's the long and short of things. If all you want to do it undermine us and take your easy pot shots at us, then I'm going to cancel your account. *** *** We work WAY too hard to put up with this bullshit from you. If you don't appreciate what we do, go read one of those fan boy sites that just blow Disney press releases up your ass. ***
Originally Posted By Yookeroo He's just following Lutz's lead of taking himself and the subject matter way too seriously. They really do think of themselves as some sort of Disney watchdog. Which is fine if they're watching for some sort of actual malfeasance. When it's about whether or not the Subs are coming back....
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Disney fandom sure does have its share of crackpots, doesn't it? Malin's letter, assuming it's authentic, is completely over the top. It's almost sinister how absorbed some people are with Disney.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 No kidding. Plus, if they just said "here's a rumor we heard - the subs might not be coming back after they close..." that would be one thing. But they tend to present things as fact, i.e. "The subs will not be coming back after they close." Then, when this turns out to be untrue, they just fall back on "Disney changed their minds." Disney does do that sometimes. But there's nothing to indicate the recent subs closure wasn't just a refurb. Of course, we should always take stuff on Disney boards with a grain of salt. But the various boards' authors could make things easier on themselves by presenting as facts only things they know unequivocally as facts (because they got them from official channels and not from some "insider" spreading rumors), and presenting rumors as rumors and possible future developments as possible future developments and calling them exactly that.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 All the tidbits are classic Dusty Sage: >>>Disney changes things on a dime and always have. This is not the first time and won't be the last time that we've written about something that later gets changed or spun by Disney in a another way. But you still don't have all the info (Iger didn't deny that the ride has been closed mostly as a budget saving move, which it is).<<< When did Iger "not deny" that the Subs were closed as a budget move? Last time I checked, it takes money to refurb an attraction, and for the Subs refurb, they had to obviously close the attraction and drain the lagoon. With Finding Dory, and the summer crowds, you can beat they wish they had Nemo going full steam. >>>. . . even if you don't like it or can't comprehend that Disney changes their mind and direction all the freakin' time. << That's the excuse, that Disney changes their minds all the time, even when it isn't plausible. I'm happy to report 'rumors', and acknowledge that people give me false info, it happens, but Miceage's rumors are easy to spot as fabrications by the Miceage staff, and they never say they got it wrong, just that the money for some idiotic new coaster was lost in the couch cushions when Iger took out his wallet to buy a cuppachino. >>*** We work WAY too hard to put up with this bullshit from you. If you don't appreciate what we do, go read one of those fan boy sites that just blow Disney press releases up your ass. ***<<< Miceage won't report on official Disney press releases, like the stuff happening with WDI in Anaheim if they don't like the information for some reason. The website has change since Al Lutz was running things as Al was never *this* down on Disney and so off the grid when it comes to publishing rumors that don't even make sense. How does Miceage work hard? If they truly have an inside source (doubtful), all they had to do is rewrite the info, perhaps disguising the source, and slightly changing key pieces of info so it can't be traced. Not an onerous task. The bulk of Miceage's work is taking photos of Disneyland (when they care to), and producing poorly written articles that you'd have to be pretty naive to believe. Miceage hasn't gotten much right in the past couple years, and even when the info is correct, such as changes to Mermaid's scenes, there is suspicious information that is probably embedded to make Disney look bad, like the big Ursula defeated scene and the "fancy" rear projection Queen of Hearts, it's a bummer as Miceage seems to love trying to make Disney look bad. Even if Miceage sometimes get tidbits of info from park cast members, the editorial board manipulates stuff for their agenda.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 >>>presenting rumors as rumors and possible future developments as possible future developments and calling them exactly that.<<< Miceage wouldn't do that. Dusty 'reported' that DHS was getting a Carsland and was 100% sure it was going to happen and told the naysayers that they'd be 'sorry', and then gloated about how DHS is now the park it should be. In a way, they're kinda living in a role playing game where Disney actually cares about what a handful of guests on Miceage think. I think that with DHS, Miceage and east coast fans who run websites kinda think that if they spread these rumors of Carsland/StarWarsland/Pixar at DHS, somebody at Disney might think, 'hey, god idea', or maybe even think that somebody else in the company is planning on this. The problem that Miceage doesn't get is that Disney does a ton of research on their own, and there are logistical and other practical issues that Miceage doesn't care about that actually stand in the way of whatever project they propose, such as the monorail track and popularity of Nemo/Autopia when it comes to putting in a Star Wars ride in the middle of Fantasyland. There's also a Miceage narcissism, the site has Bob Gurr, and used to have a rep. for insider info, and they think that they kinda speak for the annual pass holders, who they think are somehow custodians of Walt's vision. I think this has driven a lot of anger towards fans who question their articles, and their anger against Disney. At some point the hate just went over the top. If you listen to Miceage podcasts, and have seen videos of Miceage crew members like Fishbulb interview Imagineers, there is a kinda passive aggressive anger where they sometimes tune out what the WDI person is saying, or talk over them. Yes, they run a website and visit Disneyland a lot, but that doesn't mean that their talented when it comes to designing attractions or even understanding why things are done a certain way or what the limitations are when it comes to introducing new attractions in Disneyland. In the end, Miceage isn't really for the fans, it's now mostly to garner casual web traffic and for having a tense one-sided conversation with Disney.
