Originally Posted By jmuboy I would love to see Pandas at DAK. I know some people think "its a zoo, boring - build more rides". But Pandas are a sure fire "E Ticket" type animal exhibit that would certainly get a lot of buzz, a lot of press and a lot of visitors through the exhibit. Imagine all the Disney Panda plush and t-shirts they could sell!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo The farm may have been boring to you. But to my European family who have not seen many of the things grown there except in a grocery store (because they grow in warmer climates), it is of interest. My kids and wife love that sort of thing (as a native Californian, me not so much). But having it as a part of the whole is great, and much better than what they have there now, a bunch of lame statues.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Why is the rail-road line so far north of Fantasyland? Who was the cuke in the late 60s to design the railroad line to be so far from any sites of Fantasyland?<< It was explained to me that the railroad was layed out that way because (I'm no expert on this): 1) In a 1971 mindset they wanted to minimize the showbuildings needing to be built outside "the berm" which WDW doesn't even have. They didn't recognize the value that should be seen today with the integration of DL's route. Keep the route on the first floor rather than 2nd floor, for money and logistics. So in Fantasyland that means behind the show buildings and not placing the weight or stress -$$$$$- on utilidors. Also, I wonder how elevations play into this, especially with the elevation leaving the spur headed back to Main Street. Might not have been realistic to have it go through Fantasyland on the 2nd floor in regards to slopes. Even if stress/weight/elevation not an issue see #2 2) The layout has it going out around the Rivers of America and Grand Prix. At some point in the design process they might have had to give up and keep it a standard circle, rather than divert it back into Fantasyland and trying to shoe-horn it around HM, SW, & 20Ks show buildings. Anyways, that rambling line of thought is why I guess I always accepted what they had to do in 1971. >>I thought the point in these "MK" park railroads that cover the perimeter of the park .. is to get glimpses of what lays in store .. for each land. But aside from some nice Floridian grass patches and trees ... you are some 100-or-so yards from the borders of Fantasyland.<< Come now, DL's hardly gives a much better view into the North side of the park, not until Small World. I don't get to worked up about looking into the theater. >>I always thought that was one of the strangest design elements of the "MK" park.<< I still agree with you, in reality there probably wasn't a better way. >>Well .. now that the 20K lagoon and showbuilding have been wiped off the face of the Earth ... here's a chance to repurpose the area ... and leave a large enough section that could serve as an "access corridor" that could lead as far back as where the Walt Disney World Railroad track is for expansion.<< Great idea, but not going to happen for a long, long time, especially with the other available pads and the areas that scream for the need for an update. Besides, dealing with new access to the Utilidors alone would be a HUGE task. I'm just happy to see a new showbuilding coming back to Fantasyland. That alone would improve things. Too bad it can't integrate into a new toontown too. >>They don't want to do anything now? Fine. Don't. But when it comes time to design the showbuilding for L.M. .. mark a space where no permanent structure could be built AND GET IN THE WAY .... so that Fantasyland could (someday) finally merge with the WDWRR line .. and encompass it WITHIN Fantasyland ... instead of having no association with the land - like it does now!<< Who knows! Would be VERY cool to hear that they did that very thing. Again, I would be super thrilled to see them extend a path between Pinoch around TLM curving back and around to Toontown RR station. THAT would be a great thing as you similarly allude to, but both your and my ideas require an immense amount of resources to deal with backstage issues when they have so many other areas of the MK to work on or add to.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I would agree that Bush has done a poor job as a whole on the economy.>> Thank God. You had me worried for a second. ... Of course, I think he's done an awful job on almost everything (and Congress is also to blame) and our grandchildren's children's children will be paying the price. If we aren't all dead! <<Yes the oil companys are hosing the American people right now. Now, are you saying when Obama is elected oil prices will drop because of it? >> First, I don't assume Obama will be elected. Second, I think oil will keep dropping because it has been inflated strictly through speculation that is somehow allowed in our 'free except when it isn't convenient for the crooks' market. It will likely fall back into the 70s (the real fair price should be somewhere around $65 a barrel if you talk to experts), but who cares, really? Oil has fallen from $147 a barrel to $88 and gas has fallen about 40 cents in South Florida. In other words, it's all fixed. The oil companies want gas between $3 and $4 a gallon and they are going to gouge the public until someone in DC stops it. I don't see anyone doing it no matter who is in the White House.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I agree with you. Until the World econmy stabializes business leaders have to use caution.>> Yep ... and unfortunately WDW has been run more conservatively than a fundamentalist church in West Virginia for over a decade now ... so the thought that Jay and Bob are going to say 'we'll invest $400-500 million in our Florida parks between now and 2011 when our flagship and No. 1 park in the world celebrates its 40th anniversary' really seems ludicrous despite what I'd like to see happen.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But DAK IS a half day park. Seriously they close the place at 6pm.>> DAK is a half-day park because management chooses it to be. Killing Rivers of Light and closing the park early is a choice. There certainly is enough to keep the place open later. And more could be added. It is all about the folks running the place and their 'vision' for WDW.
Originally Posted By dshyates "In other words, it's all fixed." You mean like how gas always seems to go up for springbreak, summer, and the holidays, and goes down right before a presidential election?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It was explained to me that the railroad was layed out that way because (I'm no expert on this): 1) In a 1971 mindset they wanted to minimize the showbuildings needing to be built outside "the berm" which WDW doesn't even have. They didn't recognize the value that should be seen today with the integration of DL's route. Keep the route on the first floor rather than 2nd floor, for money and logistics. So in Fantasyland that means behind the show buildings and not placing the weight or stress -$$$$$- on utilidors. Also, I wonder how elevations play into this, especially with the elevation leaving the spur headed back to Main Street. Might not have been realistic to have it go through Fantasyland on the 2nd floor in regards to slopes. Even if stress/weight/elevation not an issue see #2 2) The layout has it going out around the Rivers of America and Grand Prix. At some point in the design process they might have had to give up and keep it a standard circle, rather than divert it back into Fantasyland and trying to shoe-horn it around HM, SW, & 20Ks show buildings. Anyways, that rambling line of thought is why I guess I always accepted what they had to do in 1971.>> That is indeed why the WDW RR was layed out the way that it is. Frankly, I don't see what's wrong with that. DL's was an entirely different animal due to space limitations that necessitated sending it through show buildings ... something Walt thought was a good idea as he added the Grand Canyon and Primeval World himself. In Florida, the RR is the attraction. Not necessarily what can be viewed from the tracks. Indeed, a lot of the fun of taking it was being out in the 'wilderness' ... something that has changed greatly as the forests inside the berm have been thinned both naturally (due to the hurricanes that have blown through in the past decade) and by Disney itself trying to eliminate fires from pyro fallout. Go back 15-20 years and you'd have to have a real eagle-eye to spot any show buildings for Mansion and Small World from the RR, but now they stick out like green thumbs. I can (and do) complain about many things at the MK, but the way the RR is layed out isn't one of them.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "In other words, it's all fixed." <<You mean like how gas always seems to go up for springbreak, summer, and the holidays, and goes down right before a presidential election?>> Gee, what a coincidence, right? ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Rivers of Light is dead?>> Last I heard it had been killed, sadly. I have heard rumors that a 'reworking' is taking place, but no one I know has been able to confirm.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Indeed, a lot of the fun of taking it was being out in the 'wilderness' ... something that has changed greatly as the forests inside the berm have been thinned both naturally (due to the hurricanes that have blown through in the past decade) and by Disney itself trying to eliminate fires from pyro fallout. Go back 15-20 years and you'd have to have a real eagle-eye to spot any show buildings for Mansion and Small World from the RR, but now they stick out like green thumbs.<< One of the big things that get my goat. In addition to being able to clearly see the showbuilding now from HM's queue. Something that would take two high school kids 1.5 hours to fix has been as bad as it is now since at least 2004. I was hoping the latest rehab would've addressed it. What "gets my goat" is the lack of effort put in to make the park a "park" again. Look at the hd videos of TDL online, especially around the castle and be blown away at it's parklike tranquility. Whether it be the back of the railroad because of diesel leaks and pyro or the hub, the MK has lost A LOT of greenery. It's only technically 15 years younger than DL and the difference in mature trees and green areas is staggering.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> can (and do) complain about many things at the MK, but the way the RR is layed out isn't one of them.<< Agreed. Same here. I do think the Main Street train station lost a little character with the alterations and I think they lost out on the opportunity to really do something with the toontown station refurb. Add it to the list of 20+ things they are currently going cheap on.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 How many times have I bitched online about the removal of greenery at MK? (or WDW in general) In the early-mid 90s, the MK had a full canopy of mature or maturing trees that provided shade and a park-like atmosphere. Now? Strip center seedlings in their place. Again, you'd think management would understand the importance of greenery and shade in a park located in subtropical Central FLA. You'd also be wrong. (Hey, Phil put the chainsaw down and leave the trees up!)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << you'd think management would understand the importance of greenery and shade in a park located in subtropical Central FLA. >> Or the liability of having mature trees become dangerous projectiles in hurricane force winds.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> DAK is a half-day park because management chooses it to be. Killing Rivers of Light and closing the park early is a choice. There certainly is enough to keep the place open later. And more could be added. It is all about the folks running the place and their 'vision' for WDW. << A perfect summation of why the majority of folks consider AK as a half day park.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Thank God. You had me worried for a second. ... Of course, I think he's done an awful job on almost everything (and Congress is also to blame) and our grandchildren's children's children will be paying the price. If we aren't all dead! << I agree, I have always supported princples, not this President.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> MK has lost A LOT of greenery. It's only technically 15 years younger than DL and the difference in mature trees and green areas is staggering. << >> How many times have I bitched online about the removal of greenery at MK? (or WDW in general) << This is an issue that truly makes me sad.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Or the liability of having mature trees become dangerous projectiles in hurricane force winds.<< Sorry, that is nonsense. History proves little problems with large trees in 30+ years prior to the hurricane. The parks are vacated during hurricanes so the only real risk is damage to other property.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The parks are vacated during hurricanes so the only real risk is damage to other property. >> If it was your property, you might not underemphasize that risk.
