Originally Posted By danyoung >Wishes, with its assortment of low level effects did play a part in the decision.< Agreed. But I think the benefits and improvements in the show warrant some clearing of the area. I also agree that the hub is a bit more sterile now than it was. But if I had to pick one or the other, I'd pick the cool show at the expense of a few trees. But that's just me. >What was MORE influential was the castle stage show. That is the larger reason; one in which I personally disagree.< I don't really know which had the greater influence - the stage show or the fireworks. I do know that they've been doing stage shows in that spot since '71, and it hasn't been a problem. Perhaps the shows just kept getting grander and more elaborate? I don't usually watch them, so I can't really judge. But I thought there was plenty of viewing room for these shows with all of the trees intact. If that was indeed the major reason for taking them out, then I agree that it was a mistake.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I don't really know which had the greater influence - the stage show or the fireworks. I do know that they've been doing stage shows in that spot since '71, and it hasn't been a problem.<< The same can basically be said about the fireworks. >>Perhaps the shows just kept getting grander and more elaborate?<< Yes. And Cinderbrellasuperfragiolicious was going to be the grand-daddy. It was THE addition for MK and was pumped heavy from glossy brochures to Good Morning America and ABC parade segments. The hub -and the trees- were reconfigured to make way for ALL of the crowds that would surely want to see this huge investment in the MK. With all the support the show saw in TDL, I'm sure they were convinced this was no mere stage show. I feel that fireworks had always been very manageable at the MK, and Wishes had no where near the low level effects that Believe or Remember had at DL. So I would advise anyone not to write it off on the fireworks.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros DL also has no trees backstage, where the majority of the fireworks are set off. It's pretty much a bunch of steel warehouses and concrete back there with nothing that will burn. There is a lot more greenery inside the park where they are shooting off most of the lower level stuff, but I believe a lot of that has been thinned out in the past couple years. The rains a few years back made the ground very soft and several trees just fell over, and I believe they've taken out or trimmed down many of the remaining trees. I don't remember ever being able to see backstage Fantasyland from Big Thunder, but now it's really easy to do. They also carefully planned the launch sites so they are all in places that don't have many trees (with the exception of the ones to the left of the castle that seem to come out of nowhere). DL also shuts down about a third of the park for the fireworks and has a huge crew of folks running around and releasing weather balloons each night to make sure it is safe. With a park the size of MK, I'm not entirely sure that's a plausible option.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Actually last time I was there they shut down the southside of Fantasyland for Wishes at MK. While DL's hub was also modified, I always felt it was done in better taste.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Cinderellabration was certainly a facor with the trees, but I have heard that Wishes viewing was the larger issue and that's why the trees really started disappearing around the time the show debuted. But what the empty Hub drives home to me is just how much emptier the MK feels due to all the 'improvements' made by the 'leadership' teams over the years. It's a hotter more uncomfortable park due to the removal of trees as well as shuttering shops and moving retail outside to carts. There's a thread here I see about the removal of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and I don't really care to rehash all the rea$on$ why it is no longer there. But in addition to an E-Ticket, the ride also provided a glistening, coral blue body of water. Something that made you feel cooler ... instead of more concrete. Then add in the kinetics. Oh, it also had tropical mature trees surrounding volcanic-looking rockwork. It all contributed to a park-like feeling that has been sorely missing at the MK for years. That's what WalMarting is all about. The Hub Waterways haven't had Swan Boats for over 20 years now. The Rivers of America hasn't had canoes for almost as long and keelboats for at least a decade. And we all know the Skyway left in '99. All of this movement (and attraction capacity) leaves ... all of the trees are removed and replaced by concrete and strip center seedlings ... shops are boarded up and outside areas of peace and beauty (the plaza outside Pirates) become giant crap flea markets ... other shops (crystal and jewelry) get taken away and replaced by massive (and mostly unused) seating areas for quick serve food ... the Castle goes from having a classy shop with upscale merchandise and the park's premier dining location to a makeup and hair salon so your daughter can be a little Jon-Ben ... I mean princess and the restaurant becomes a very pricey character location that makes it unwelcoming to many guests ... large green swaths are cut to make larger walkways to accomodate strollers and ECVs and parking for them ... lands cease to have identities because they get character attractions just plopped down with no ryhme or reason while shops all sell the exact same low quality and high profit crap ... costumes are dumbed down to reflect fat folks working at a mall ... vast areas of the park sit empty and unused. Does anyone see how vastly different a place the MK is now than it was in 1978 or 1988? Or even 1998? I truly can't see how anyone who goes there now and visited back in those days doesn't see they are getting a VASTLY lower quality product for a much higher cost. This isn't negativity. This is simple facts about the way Disney is running its supposed No. 1 theme park. If anyone would like to refute the facts, please give it your best shot.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << It's a hotter more uncomfortable park due to the removal of trees as well as shuttering shops and moving retail outside to carts. >> Have you considered global warming's influence on all this?
Originally Posted By danyoung >...the ride also provided a glistening, coral blue body of water. Something that made you feel cooler ... instead of more concrete. Then add in the kinetics. Oh, it also had tropical mature trees surrounding volcanic-looking rockwork.< I have to admit that I do miss the vibe of that huge waterway over in that corner of the park.
Originally Posted By mstaft I love 20K Leagues, but the area felt out of place in a tournament tent Fantasyland.
Originally Posted By ChiMike While it is a longshot. I think WDW would benefit greatly from getting a 20K/Verne like attraction back. Not that Mysterious Island wouldn't work in an area of the MK, but at this point AK is probably the best choice.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<Actually last time I was there they shut down the southside of Fantasyland for Wishes at MK.>>> And they spray the roof of Snow White, which I assume is why they block in front of SN. All the water all over the place makes the walking a little slippery. There must be a way to stage the fireworks without endangering the rooftops and foot traffic.
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ Or shutting down attractions for guests who could care less about fireworks. Some guests like to hit rides during the fireworks to enjoy shorter waits.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^That too, since Wishes is my least favorite Disney fireworks show. We usually hit the rides during the first parade.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Wow Bobbelee. That's amazing to hear! I think you are the first person I have read to say that. I have been annoyed by Wishes from the first time I saw it. It's nowhere near as good as Believe or Remember and the song is like nails on a chalkboard to me. By far the worst part of Remember @ DL is the syrupy children screaming WISHES. Ack.
Originally Posted By danyoung And just to be contrary, I've been listening to Wishes for the last couple of months, maybe once a week or so, just to be more familiar with the tune when I see the real fireworks in a couple of weeks. And I've decided that I REALLY like the soundtrack of Wishes, and can't wait to experience it again with all of my new found familiarity with the track. It's about 10 days - CAN'T WAIT!!!!
Originally Posted By SpectroWishes321 Am I one of the few people who don't believe that Wishes is like nails on a chalkboard? I've listened to the soundtrack a thousand times and I never get annoyed by it. Just me though, I guess some people have more sensitive ears than I do I guess.
Originally Posted By ChiMike I think you're in the vast majority Spectro. I said upfront that I have never come across someone online who shared my opinion. Seeing or listening to other Disney productions worldwide. Having lived through FITS incarnations and currently being a BIG fan of Believe and Remember, I think Wishes is pretty second-rate. Just my opinion
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have been annoyed by Wishes from the first time I saw it. It's nowhere near as good as Believe or Remember and the song is like nails on a chalkboard to me. By far the worst part of Remember @ DL is the syrupy children screaming WISHES. Ack.>> I agree 100%, Mike. No pyro show has grown as tiresome as quickly as Wishes. And since the fireworks are amazing, it clearly is the sugar overdosed moppets singing that is so grating to me. Both Believe and Remember (minus the Wishes part lifted to save money)are so much superior. Heck, Imagine (I believe that was what it was called) the show that bridged the two aforementioned shows was better and less annoying. Disney in the Stars at HKDL is also a great show. I can't believe how tired I am of Wishes but yet still love Illuminations, which is in need of replacement, after hundreds of viewings.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Wishes is ok, But Illuminations is my 2nd fav pyro show, sandwiched between Remember and Believe. I love the shells and brass used in wishes, but the music is too sugary even for my sugary tastes.
