Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 If you want to get more depressed about the MK, then have a read of Jim Hill's latest column detailing what I had heard as well regarding future projects for the old, stale park (and how nothing is going to happen ... again, thanks Mr. Bush, what a great eight-year run you've had) all being placed on hold as Disney's fiscally conservative management pinches those udders while not feeding the cow. Magical management. Totally.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Jim has a knack for writing columns on subjects, in regards to future plans, which most of the online community has already figured out. -If there is a major WDW addition it will be TLM. -It will be a large, different show building in contrast to DCA. -It will go in 20K -TLM is not confirmed. Economy casts doubt. It would be 2012 anyway. -Snow White roller coaster/B&B Dark ride from Honor. Wow, what breaking news. Jim's much better at writing about Disney history. All one has to do is look at the current trend of cloning attractions and understand that TLM is a likely addition to MK. Al posts rumor XXX on Tuesday, so Jim tweaks it, takes a little liberty, and writes about it Thursday. Typical. What this all looks like to me is that WDI, who from the sounds of it has their own current problems, is trying to play a political game again. All of a sudden in a span of 7 days, Lee H., Al, Jim, all known to be fed by certain WDI sources, are all outright spilling the beans on TLM after a drought of news. Other than HoP and SM's limbo, don't expect anything of merit at WDW for the next 3 years. As there hasn't been since Everest opened. Go to DLR!
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ So, Basically my personal belief remains as to what I said a three/four days ago. If an addition to WDW comes it will be TLM. Since they are working on one in DCA and since it is now clear the MK doesn't have the necessary capacity to handle a SM or POTC refurb, I don't believe Wall Street would be cause to cancel this ONE "1" addition. The climate can always change. Expect a stale WDW for 3 years. ^^^ See how easy this is; I could be a web columnist.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Spirit, as much as I really enjoy reading your posts for their valuable insight and information, is this really the right place to be talking politics? If you have a problem with the way things are being run in our country, please make your way to World Events and spill your heart out over there, but the politicial comments in the WDW section don't belong and take away the credibility of your argument, since you just come off as bitter about it, and I know that's not your real motivation.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 I for one am ECSTATIC over the cancellation of some of this. I CANNOT imagine losing ANOTHER original MK dark ride for another attraction that ties into a franchise (remeber 10yrs ago next door to Snow?). PLUS Mermaid PLUS a Princess n Frog Merch shop?? Im sorry, but ill be damned if i see The Happiest Land of All become the Happiest PRINCESS land of all w/ only happy happy joy joy attractions and nothing subversive! And lets not even get started on retheming Toontown to a PRE SCHOOL show on the Disney Channel!!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Jim has a knack for writing columns on subjects, in regards to future plans, which most of the online community has already figured out.>> That is mostly true. Jim has become almost entirely unreliable and a regurgitator of what others have said. Still, what's the saying about the blind squirrel finding a nut? What he wrote is largely what I've heard from those on the inside. I first heard talk of WDI's projects moving into a 'creep mode' earlier this year ... that was when oil prices seemed the biggest concern ... now we have a govenment actively privatizing Wall Street and banking (that's Communism, folks) and still the market has plunged 2300 points in a little over a week after stealing $700 BILLION from taxpayers. ... all of that tells you Disney is going to play this as conservatively as possible. So while Universal and Busch invests hundreds of millions into its Florida parks with new attractions coming on line throughout the next 2-3 years, WDW will be asking 'What Are You Celebrating? Spending the last five grand of what had been a 400,000 401K here at WDW?' <<-If there is a major WDW addition it will be TLM.>> That's a given. <<-It will be a large, different show building in contrast to DCA.>> Yep. <<-It will go in 20K>> In the area. <<-TLM is not confirmed. Economy casts doubt. It would be 2012 anyway.>> It should be starting construction tomorrow. It should be open for 10/1/11. Instead, Disney will ignore another MK milestone B-Day and instead offer some marketing scheme. <<-Snow White roller coaster/B&B Dark ride from Honor.>> I haven't heard those attractions from people who I trust, but I have heard about a general makeover of Fantasyland with a few new C-D Ticket type attractions ... so this makes sense. <<Wow, what breaking news. Jim's much better at writing about Disney history.>> He's not a very talented writer, period. <<All one has to do is look at the current trend of cloning attractions and understand that TLM is a likely addition to MK. Al posts rumor XXX on Tuesday, so Jim tweaks it, takes a little liberty, and writes about it Thursday. Typical. What this all looks like to me is that WDI, who from the sounds of it has their own current problems, is trying to play a political game again. All of a sudden in a span of 7 days, Lee H., Al, Jim, all known to be fed by certain WDI sources, are all outright spilling the beans on TLM after a drought of news. Other than HoP and SM's limbo, don't expect anything of merit at WDW for the next 3 years. As there hasn't been since Everest opened.>> The problem is that the MK never gets anything of substance. And when the earliest you could possibly have substanitive new attractions open is 2011-12 and then you push that back ... you might be talking another 6-10 years without something tangible added. To me that's the Mouse giving the finger to his guests. The MK was stale years ago ... of course in a couple of weeks at this rate the government will own TWDC anyway! <<Go to DLR!>> Just did. And ready to go back!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't believe Wall Street would be cause to cancel this ONE "1" addition.>> I know we usually agree, Mike. But not here. The current crash of the market is enough to cancel plenty. I got an email from a friend earlier today who said the current situation is likely the final nail in the boutique animal park pet project of Rasulo's as Iger has lost almost all interest in it and stomach for paying for it. <<The climate can always change. Expect a stale WDW for 3 years.>> I'd say a whole lot longer and hope I am wrong ... but I doubt it. <<^^^ See how easy this is; I could be a web columnist.>> Any idiot can be. I don't consider you an idiot. Aim higher! ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, as much as I really enjoy reading your posts for their valuable insight and information, is this really the right place to be talking politics?>> Only so much as politics affect WDW. And the current market collapse is definitely affecting WDW now and going to going forward. Some people like to think WDW exists in a magical vacuum immune from the troubles of the real world. Well, sadly it doesn't. <<If you have a problem with the way things are being run in our country, please make your way to World Events and spill your heart out over there, but the politicial comments in the WDW section don't belong and take away the credibility of your argument, since you just come off as bitter about it, and I know that's not your real motivation.>> Ah, thanks but no thanks. I think I could sooner have an intelligent discussion with Sarah Palin then the folks down in WE. And, yes, I am bitter about what is happening to the country I love ... I think it is the appropriate feeling actually.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well $1bn was wiped out of UK government today due to the fall of the Icelandic banks (many reserves were kept there as they were deemed to have the safest banks in Europe). As I warned in my blog a few months ago, WDW could be in for a cold winter with fewer Brits to bail her out.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The problem is that the MK never gets anything of substance. And when the earliest you could possibly have substanitive new attractions open is 2011-12 and then you push that back ... you might be talking another 6-10 years without something tangible added. To me that's the Mouse giving the finger to his guests. The MK was stale years ago<< Ohh, I know. Just pointing out where things stand. I agree wholeheartedly. MK needs something badly. It has needed something badly for awhile.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> know we usually agree, Mike. But not here. The current crash of the market is enough to cancel plenty.<< I guess we disagree. I us erasing at least 20% of these losses pretty quickly. By 2004 things were humming like 2001 and 2002 never even happened. I think TLM, and only TLM mind you, will survive this. >>I got an email from a friend earlier today who said the current situation is likely the final nail in the boutique animal park pet project of Rasulo's as Iger has lost almost all interest in it and stomach for paying for it.<< Well at least there is a tiny little bit of saving grace to all this misery. What a horrible idea in the first place. All for an exclusive botique Tony Baxter playground. One with Z-ticket rides, not ziplines. >>Any idiot can be. I don't consider you an idiot. Aim higher! ;-)<< Well I better get working on my podcast....
Originally Posted By jmuboy <<Go to DLR!>> I do regularly skip trips to WDW to visit the DL resoprt instead for many of the reasons listed in this post. And when I do go to WDW, I generally avoid the MK for many reasons listed in this post.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The problem is that the MK never gets anything of substance. And when the earliest you could possibly have substanitive new attractions open is 2011-12 and then you push that back ... you might be talking another 6-10 years without something tangible added. To me that's the Mouse giving the finger to his guests. The MK was stale years ago<< Too bad that they focused on 100 years of magic parades, temporary shows, and other short-term celebrations over the last 9 years. Imagine if all that capital was put towards new attractions over that same time period. Perhaps, the resort would still be "recession-proof" and we wouldn't see this cost-cutting panic today. At least WDW can still take advantage of all those DVC memberships. Those folks have to pay their maintenance fees regardless of what is cut or how the parks are operated. Say what you want, but WDW really did get their built in guest base there and they really have the membership over the barrel. The only option is to sell. Any panic selling of DVC will probably be bought back up by the mouse and then resold down the road for a nice profit.
Originally Posted By jmuboy There is a glut of DVC coming on the market over the new few years. Wonder how strong sales will be. DVC picked a rough time to be be bringing 5 new DVC resorts on-line: - Animal Kingdom - Treehouses - Bay Lake Tower - Hawaii Resort - Disneyland Grand Ca
Originally Posted By ChiMike Absolutely, but I think as far as people needing to sell their DVC, Disney's First Right of Refusal will stay strong and buy the points back for less than Disney original sold them for. The resale market is a no-lose for Disney because it also artificially keeps Disney's retail prices high. Now for the new inventory. I'm sure they have had to readjust their projections. They're expansion will hurt other timeshares more than them. AKL might take a little longer but the others should sell fairly quick.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Spirit if the market stabilizes you think we will still get Star Tours 2?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Too bad that they focused on 100 years of magic parades, temporary shows, and other short-term celebrations over the last 9 years. Imagine if all that capital was put towards new attractions over that same time period.>> Yeah. Ultimately, that's what's so galling about these marketing scams. When they end what are you left with? Maybe a temporary bump in revenue, in profits. But it doesn't exactly carry on ... otherwise you'd never have to have a Happiest Celebration on Earth after a Magical Gatherings after a 100 Years of Walt after a Millennium ... etc ... etc ... They don't exactly have staying power. On the surface they certainly cost less than building new attractions, debuting new parades and show, opening new dining locations. But when you add physically to a park you have a draw that will exist for years, hopefully, for decades. In other words, adding the Little Mermaid and spending say $300-400 million to upgrade Fantasyland (likely the cost if they really plan to add a Snow White mine train coaster, swap Beauty and the Beast for the old, tired SW dark ride, add new shopping venues etc ...) pays dividends for many years. The Two Years of Two Million Mostly Cheap Gifts That No One Ever Dreamed Of stops paying as soon as it ends, although with a clunker like this one ... it likely stopped quite a while ago. <<Perhaps, the resort would still be "recession-proof" and we wouldn't see this cost-cutting panic today.>> That's very logical. <<At least WDW can still take advantage of all those DVC memberships. Those folks have to pay their maintenance fees regardless of what is cut or how the parks are operated. Say what you want, but WDW really did get their built in guest base there and they really have the membership over the barrel. The only option is to sell. Any panic selling of DVC will probably be bought back up by the mouse and then resold down the road for a nice profit.>> Oh yeah, DVC is the real cash cow in Florida (as much as we like to think it's the MK) ... and like all timeshare scams, the Mouse is making a whole lot more out of it than the 'owners.'
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit if the market stabilizes you think we will still get Star Tours 2? >> As far as I know, everything is full speed ahead with that. I don't see anything changing that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>... and like all timeshare scam<< Not all ts's are scams. I love being a marriott owner, and so far my business case still stacks up in my fav vs investment. While it is not for everyone, this co-production model works for me!
