Originally Posted By leobloom Hokie, the FLE backstory is mind-numbing. I don't need to know if the experience is after, before, or during the film's events. I'm surprised WDI is able to justify the classic FL dark rides. Are we seeing the events of the movie as they happen or are we dreaming about the events after the fact?! So many questions that I can ponder while waiting in my NexGen line!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Both DCA and TDS are entirely comprised of closed narratives with massive show bibles to back them up.>> I can't comment on TDS, but the old parts of DCA I saw don't really feel like this. They just seem like a combination of places without rigid narratives, but I'll take your word for it.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Words are cheap. It just takes a 25 year old English major working their first real job at WDI to write up this stuff in an afternoon, with maybe one trip to Starbucks as fuel. Then they get a few props done up to support the new "story" in the queue, and you've got fodder for the perky-perky-perky gals running the Disney Parks Blog out of cubicles in Kissimmee somewhere. It's better than having attractions based on and attached to the latest Disney Channel tartlet, but it still comes off as kind of smarmy and forced. I can't wait to see the "interactive queue" and the various versions of Whack-A-Mole games they come up with to keep the Standby line pacified. I also can't wait to see how many weeks it takes for all those effects to break or fail or get turned off by lawyers, never to be touched again by WDW's understaffed maintenance department. This backstory interactive thing might work in Tokyo, or the 1970's when Disney management still maintained their American parks extremely well. But in the 21st century where there's more executives than tradesmen on the staff? I give the whole thing 60 days before it's broken, roped off and/or shut down.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I can't wait to see the "interactive queue" and the various versions of Whack-A-Mole games they come up with to keep the Standby line pacified. I also can't wait to see how many weeks it takes for all those effects to break or fail or get turned off by lawyers, never to be touched again by WDW's understaffed maintenance department. << What ever happened to those Tigger Bounce Pads that were in the Pooh queue? What a brilliant idea those were.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I can't comment on TDS, but the old parts of DCA I saw don't really feel like this. They just seem like a combination of places without rigid narratives, but I'll take your word for it.>> Thanks! I think there are two issues here namely: 1) Do lands need complex narratives? 2) Do the narratives need to be force-fed to guests? DCA has some rather complex narratives - Condor Flats for example (I don't have the show bible to hand so this might not be 100% accurate - it has been over a decade!): CF was the birthplace of the Californian aeronautical industry. It attracted the best and brightest to the desert from the birth of flight to the first flights into space. During the '60s those folks ended up moving elsewhere leaving much of CF abandoned (like the motor pool building and the Soarin' show building). After years of abandonment flight enthusiasts began to return (unclear why) and set up shop in CF. The motor pool became CF Scenic Air Tours. This new generation also stumbled across the old research hangar and decided to build and install a flying theater to allow others to experience the wonder of flight. Now guests flock to CF to experience that theater. Wandering around CF you will see elements of older infrastructure that has been repurposed (the motor pool into the retail unit is one example). Guests don't get a true sense that this was the birthplace of flight and space travel (Edwards Air Force Base in the Mojave was the model) but they get little signs through the environmental placemaking. The original plan called for more streetmosphere that would have reinforce that story - ultimately it was limited to Minnie Earhart and an a capella group of mechanics. The story isn't force-fed down the throats of guests - it is used to inform the decision-making in the creation of the superstructure to the land. The Soarin' story is a little hokey - but thankfully it isn't necessary for guests to understand that in order to appreciate the attraction. FLE is a real head-scratcher to me. You have to be so careful that you don't tie yourself (and guests) into knots over having structures that are at different points of time. I must admit that the BoG restaurant really bothers me as it is a hodgepodge of time periods. The restaurant is architecturally spectacular but there are elements like the music box that I don't like as they don't fit into the storytelling. It is the same with having Beast carved into the stone gargoyles - he just wouldn't have that inside his own castle. It is messy storytelling.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I don't have so much an issue with creating a backstory for FLE. My concern comes when for some odd reason WDW management feels compelled to create an elaborate backstory for an attraction like BTMRR, which has been around for 32 years without "this" backstory. BTMRR had has a backstory, do they really need one that involves a megalomaniac robber baron? People have already discussed how when Disney's Animal Kingdom Park first opened how the park evoked a strong, pro environmental activists standpoint. Again, do we really need to go there with BTMRR? Regional Disney management teams infusing their rigid political and ecological viewpoints into Disney parks and virtually nowhere else in the Disney Universe is getting a bit long in the tooth.
Originally Posted By leemac <<BTMRR had has a backstory, do they really need one that involves a megalomaniac robber baron?>> BTMRR is a roller coaster - plain and simple. It has some nice environmental touches but the story doesn't enhance the experience one iota. Guests only need to know it is the wildest ride in the wilderness. I'm not going to name names but these interactive queues have all come from the same second rate hack of a show writer at WDI-FL. There is a reason why there are so few show writers in FL.........
Originally Posted By leemac <<People have already discussed how when Disney's Animal Kingdom Park first opened how the park evoked a strong, pro environmental activists standpoint.>> I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Kilimanjaro Safaris had a very dark story about illegal poaching but the narrative of ecological plunder by humans wasn't overtly expressed elsewhere in the park. Extinction and destruction of habitat is a key feature of other attractions like Flights of Wonder and Kali but there is enough balance with pure entertainment like Camp Minnie-Mickey and Dinoland. I don't think DAK was a "preachy" park on opening.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>BTMRR is a roller coaster - plain and simple. It has some nice environmental touches but the story doesn't enhance the experience one iota. Guests only need to know it is the wildest ride in the wilderness.<<< That may be true, but in Paris the Frontierland has a very good backstory that involves PM and BTMRR.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<BTMRR is a roller coaster - plain and simple. It has some nice environmental touches but the story doesn't enhance the experience one iota. Guests only need to know it is the wildest ride in the wilderness.>> On this we agree. <<I'm not going to name names but these interactive queues have all come from the same second rate hack of a show writer at WDI-FL.>> And please do not name names. Really not necessary. Writing backstories is one thing ( even I have done that with the mega store on Main Street USA ), WDW management team putting in props to support the backstory is another thing. I really don't think the backstory is necessary. And, do we really need to have a villian for the backstory on that ride more specifically a megalomaniac? I think it detracts from the "fun" of the ride. The focus of the ride should be the actual experience of being on a western style runaway train.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<That may be true, but in Paris the Frontierland has a very good backstory that involves PM and BTMRR.>> I can appreciate that. But, it is a different park, with a whole different quest experience. What may work for the MK, may not work for other Disney parks. I firmly believe that each park can do as they wish. I'm not certain that the MK needs an intense backstory for BTMRR. And, if it does, does it really need to involve a megalomaniac. I really think that is going over the top. "Hey kids, let's go on the runaway train ride built by a psychotic rich man". Couldn't MK's management team just left it with a wild train ride built through geyser and earthquake prone territory?
Originally Posted By leemac <<The focus of the ride should be the actual experience of being on a western style runaway train.>> Sometimes a ride is just a ride - it doesn't need to be anything else. BTMRR is a fun family coaster set inside a themed mountain with props. That is all you need to know. It is just part of good menu planning - that usual bugbear of mine.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I can appreciate that. But, it is a different park, with a whole different quest experience. What may work for the MK, may not work for other Disney parks. I firmly believe that each park can do as they wish. I'm not certain that the MK needs an intense backstory for BTMRR. And, if it does, does it really need to involve a megalomaniac. I really think that is going over the top. "Hey kids, let's go on the runaway train ride built by a psychotic rich man". Couldn't MK's management team just left it with a wild train ride built through geyser and earthquake prone territory?<<< Honestly I don't think that a regular guest will notice the backstory. BTMRR is a fantastic rollercoaster in a wonderful setting.
Originally Posted By leemac <<And please do not name names. Really not necessary.>> I'll restrain myself for now. He'll be trotted out for the ribbon cutting anyhow - no doubt as pleased as punch over his laborious show script.
Originally Posted By leemac <<That may be true, but in Paris the Frontierland has a very good backstory that involves PM and BTMRR.>> And that is because Jeff and Pat Burke wanted a more unified vision for DLP's Frontierland. He had the benefit of having both HM and BTMRR as Day One attractions too.It made sense as the mine employs a lot of the townsfolk so it was important to carry that theme throughout the area attractions and RDE. Much like mining towns of the past Thunder Mesa is one unified story.
Originally Posted By dagobert I like the fact that Thunder Mesa has a good backstory, but for the most visitors, BTMRR is just a good rollercoaster and PM a wonderful dark ride. The backstory is the reason why I don't want to see any new rides in Frontierland, at least not as long as the current management with its franchises is in place.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The backstory is the reason why I don't want to see any new rides in Frontierland, at least not as long as the current management with its franchises is in place.>> I can understand. The problem with DLP's FrL is that it is not an efficient land user. The area towards the Indian Canoe/Cottonwood Creek Ranch/Pueblo Trading Post/Chaparral Theatre is quite expansive. The Theatre was only supposed to be a temporary build as that was an expansion pad for FrL.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The backstory is the reason why I don't want to see any new rides in Frontierland, at least not as long as the current management with its franchises is in place.>> I know folks think that The Lone Ranger is a shoe-in for FrL if the movie strikes gold but it is going to be a very difficult movie to translate into the parks. The set pieces all revolve around trains and those are already covered in every FrL! I think if the Indian mysticism had been left in the movie then that could have made for an interesting addition to FrL but it is virtually absent from the current script.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>> I can understand. The problem with DLP's FrL is that it is not an efficient land user. The area towards the Indian Canoe/Cottonwood Creek Ranch/Pueblo Trading Post/Chaparral Theatre is quite expansive. The Theatre was only supposed to be a temporary build as that was an expansion pad for FrL.<<< I guess one day there will come a new attraction for that space. Currently there is a meet and greet. A few years ago I have seen a blueprint that showed the Grizzly River Run in that area. My wish is still a new version of Splash Mountain that fits the overall theme.
