Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "We've been told to expect a few quieter years after the DCA projects are complete" Good. I am looking at being there within two years SPECIFICALLY to arrive AFTER all the construction finishes and I hate the idea of coming while SOMETHING ELSE is being worked on. Looks like my October 2012 date is even more prescient than I realized.
Originally Posted By TP2000 leemac< "Going up against F&B on the Arena will give you a bloody nose. It did when Mary Niven ran the group and I've no doubt that it hasn't changed since." And yet there are many examples of Disneyland property being turned over to different departments to be used as totally different things, big and small; Mission To Mars becomes Pizza Port Maliburitos/Dips n' Chips becomes Midway Mania ABC Bistro becomes Playhouse Disney Plaza Pavilion becomes AP Processing Disney Gallery becomes Marketing suite Bank of Main Street become Disney Gallery Lunching Pad becomes Tomorrowlanding Rocket Rods queue becomes Store Command If anything, it seems as though "F&B" in Anaheim is the least attached to its many outlets, as it seems to shut down and mothball many locations year after year, only to reopen them a few years later with a new signboard or menu, only to shutter them again the following year. How many times has that snack bar at Fowler's Harbor changed its menu after a short list of long-term closures over the last decade? How rare was it to find the Farmer's Market or shake stand in DCA actually open before they got bulldozed last week to build a new ride there? It seems very odd that a crazed obsession from local Anaheim managers over the picnic profits generated at the Festival Arena could derail a major mega-buck expansion of Disneyland. An expansion that is much needed IMHO. But if you are saying that not only is the Festival Arena a sacred cow (no offense to Mickey Moo next door), but that there is really no corporate appetite for anything to do with this expansion beyond the Orange County chapter of the Tony Baxter Fan Club, then I can see how this thing would be dead in the water. And yet it keeps percolating, at least online.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Thought of another small but very recent example; less than six months ago the merchandise group reopened the mothballed Gepetto's Toy Shop in Fantasyland as Gepetto's Sweet Shop. By Labor Day they closed it to hand it over to the entertainment group to remake it into a Princess meet n' greet for Tangled. There are fiefdoms everywhere in American business, from General Motors executive suites to the makeup counter at your local department store (which is probably more cut throat than the GM executive ranks ever were). But I just can't believe that these Disneyland fiefdoms are allowed to stand in the way of overall Park expansion and growth if there is an executive desire to expand and grow.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Thought of another small but very recent example; less than six months ago the merchandise group reopened the mothballed Gepetto's Toy Shop in Fantasyland as Gepetto's Sweet Shop. By Labor Day they closed it to hand it over to the entertainment group to remake it into a Princess meet n' greet for Tangled." TP that venue popped in my head earlier, but I didn't mention it. Of course characters seem to trump everything, so like I said before, if Disney has a new hot franchise property on their hands that could be segued into the real estate between Fantasyland and Frontierland we can expect Festival Arena to be bulldozed and entitlements be damned.
Originally Posted By tashajilek " we can expect Festival Arena to be bulldozed and entitlements be damned." Yes!!! we should picket!!
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...[Food and Beverage] seems to shut down and mothball many locations year after year, only to reopen them a few years later with a new signboard or menu, only to shutter them again the following year.<< And they do this precisely to keep ownership of each location they can. Don't get me wrong-- anything can be wrested away if it is deemed important enough. But there is always a price of some sort to pay.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I will also echo the assertion that this is really, really little more than speculation. As I said back in post #12, there have been plans (some quite detailed) for the Ranch area (onstage and backstage) going back 35 years. This is just the latest round of internet moonshining, regardless of the source.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<There is no money in the pot for DL at the moment - not a penny. Ideas are always being worked up and who knows maybe one will bite. However as far as I'm concerned there is no appetite for an expansion at DL. The resort cannot continue to sink hundreds of millions of dollars into it each year. We've been told to expect a few quieter years after the DCA projects are complete - maybe that will change but with HKDLR/SDLR/DLRP seeing a lot of expenditure in the next decade I don't expect to see much at DLR. DCA needs to demonstrate it can stand on its own two feet.>> Wow, way to kill the party Leemac. Turn out the lights boys, dump the booze out and someone give me a ride home. So it sounds like after Star Tours, its going to be quite the dry spell for awhile it looks like. Oh god, does that mean I have to go to HKDL next few years for some original attractions? Well it will be cool to see some of the attention turn to DCA for awhile and if it can stand on its own feet.
Originally Posted By Manfried Doesn't anyone think that maybe the different fiefdoms within Disney are using Al as a way to fight their wars over territory? Of course they are and Al knows it and loves it. Does it make him right? no. It just makes him Al.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Relating to a different aspect of his column ... he mentions that they're envisioning a "water based family style thrill ride" - this doesn't sound too encouraging to me. Let's suppose - for fun - that this rumor is true. What's a new water based family thrill ride look like? It's unlikely to be another flume ride as they've already got a perfectly serviceable one with Splash Mountain. For that matter, they've already got a raft ride complete with it's own themed mountain with GRR. They've even got the original 'Jurassic Park' type boat ride with a plunge at PotC. So when it comes to water thrill rides, they've got the current variations covered. I'd suppose that this attraction would be a new mountain of some sort, and would feature the "latest thing" - an elevator type shaft that lifts the boat vertically. This type of attraction is already at Seaworld and Uni Singapore, so maybe they think they need to have one too. It would be relatively easy to include an action scene in a new 'Lone Ranger' movie that features our hero and his trusty scout Tonto somehow escaping certain death by shooting themselves up through a rock tube and then plunging over a waterfall - it almost writes itself. I'm of an age now where it's hard for me to imagine the Lone Ranger becoming hip again, but who knows? Why not bring back Antonio Bandaras and Catherine Zeta Jones for another outing of Zorro? I'm not a big Zorro fan either, but at least as a franchise it's already up and running. And if the movie tanks, who cares - we still get a new e-ticket out of it. As mentioned earlier, Frontierland is a theme that doesn't get people excited the way it used to in the heady days of Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett. And I'm not sure that the Lone Ranger is going to help much - characters don't get any staler. Anybody born after 1980 has probably never even seen Lone Ranger. Also, I'm not sure how well the Lone Ranger story can be told within a dark-ride format. Zorro at least has the hispanic thing going for him.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But I just can't believe that these Disneyland fiefdoms are allowed to stand in the way of overall Park expansion and growth if there is an executive desire to expand and grow. >> Firstly you are suggesting that there is a desire to expand and grow - trust me, management don't have any desire to put capacity into DL - they will only do it when it becomes absolutely necessary - like MK - it becomes last resort. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Secondly you need to have protected properties at the parks. Attractions can't always get their own way - otherwise the park would be bankrupt. F&B and Merch helps to fund their activities and the Arena is a gold mine. It would have a huge impact on the rest of the park if it suddenly disappeared and couldn't be adequately replaced. That is a huge void in your budget that can't be compensated elsewhere - especially if it is to be developed into attraction territory which take years to bring on-stream. And you'd better believe it - power is devolved is effectively devolved to veeps in TDA - SVPs and higher tend not to get involved in these types of spats. You need to have your Ops folks focusing on delivering profits.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Also, I'm not sure how well the Lone Ranger story can be told within a dark-ride format.>> Exactly - the movie has had a tortuous development process precisely because they can't find storylines that are cinematic enough for a big Bruckheimer production. It is still listed for a May '12 release though - although no sign of casting beyond the current crop of writers pouring over the rewrites. I don't think Rich Ross would be wise to sink $200m+ into a big budget western based on a creaky property like The Lone Ranger. It just doesn't seem to fit into the current Walt Disney Pictures mantra.
Originally Posted By leemac TP2000 - you also miss one vital fact in your list of converted properties at DL. None of those were even remotely as profitable as the corporate picnics held at Festival Arena. Not even close. You don't give up a profit center without a fight.
Originally Posted By Manfried Gee Disney operate things like its a business? Say it ain't so. And based on nearly all the comments by all these fans I thought it was a private club/museum. (he said in a post dripping with sarcasm.)
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I'm of an age now where it's hard for me to imagine the Lone Ranger becoming hip again, but who knows?" And how many of us would have said the same thing about pirate moves less than a decade ago? If the film is done correctly, it doesn't matter that it's a 'dead' genre, it will recreate it for a new generation. If it's just so-so, it will go the route of Tombstone, Hidalgo, and Master and Commander, who all tried to reinvent the genre and never succeeded.
Originally Posted By Schmitty Good Vibes Great post FerretAfros, but didn't the last couple of Pirates movies kill off that genre? I'm not looking forward to Pirates 4, especially now that I've heard that (gimmick) Keith Richards is returning. I love Keith as a musician, but they seemed to drag his rear into the story. Probably as a favor to Johnny Depp. I dunno.
Originally Posted By Schmitty Good Vibes And Pirates 4 will probably make a killing. Drink the coolaid folks.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby leemac - you may have addressed this before, but is there any basis in reality for Al's "Phase 2" or post-2012 DCA additions/retheme? Thanks.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "If it's just so-so, it will go the route of Tombstone, Hidalgo, and Master and Commander, who all tried to reinvent the genre and never succeeded." Tombstone and Master & Commander aren't so-so movies. So-so success maybe (although Tombstone has a huge cultish following). Not that I'm disputing your overall point. "Great post FerretAfros, but didn't the last couple of Pirates movies kill off that genre? I'm not looking forward to Pirates 4, especially now that I've heard that (gimmick) Keith Richards is returning." I wasn't looking forward to it either. Until I found out it's being based on a Tim Powers book. Now I"m cautiously optimistic.
