Originally Posted By MPierce I have no problem with DVC at all. I do have a problem with the location of this new unit because I perceive it being in my sightline when I stay at the WL. The CR is within spitting distance of the WL, however you do not notice it. The reason this debate has carried on so long is because some believe the WDW Resort area is being overbuilt. Not only with DVC units, but with other standard hotel/motel units as well. We will probably be having a similar debate when the Flamingo Crossing area finally gets underway. Yes DVC is separate from the Parks, but they are controlled by the same corporation. That's why some people are angry. They feel that to much attention is being paid on DVC expansion versus Park expansion. Rightly or wrongly this comes about because the DVC's are being built on WDW property. When you combine that with the diminishing quality in several areas of WDW, you suddenly have an issue in some peoples eyes.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Decreased attendance? I must have missed something.>> Excuse me. I should have said reduced bookings at its hotels. As we all know WDW has been giving away it's rooms lately and has been using free dining to lure people in. So while attendance has remained good, the reduced profit margins have resulted in cutbacks.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 You're locked in for life, whether you like the product or not. DL AP'ers can choose to renew or not every year. In that respect, DVC owners are at a distinct disadvantage compared to a concerned local / general park-going base. --- ever hear of resale ? Does Disney want a flood of DVC units on the market at one time ? No- it looks bad.. but again we're just a bunch of idiots it appears - at least from some angles. also many DVC'ers buy points again in the future- recommend other owners ( for which you get rewarded) - I am not saying they ever will wield the impact AP DL people do- but it's the best chance the Florida parks have my friend..whether you like us or not
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Right. Because obviously the DVCers have helped all of that significantly. Haha and what have you contributed other than whining and sarcasm may I ask ? What has another group done. We have pointed out things we have had DVC pass along to us since we had ownership- what perks have you gotten from your approach ?. That's right - none I'll leave out the sarcastic ha ha at the end as you seem to have to add for some bizarre reason..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Oh come now MousDad! They do more than anyone for the resort maintenance! Of course Disney listens to them! more than they listen to disgruntled whiners..yep
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<and what have you contributed other than whining and sarcasm may I ask ? What has another group done. We have pointed out things we have had DVC pass along to us since we had ownership- what perks have you gotten from your approach ?. That's right - none>> You're right nothing has happened because management doesn't give 2 craps. I've called Phil Holmse's cast member complaint line numerous times. I can't help it if nothing comes of it. And I'm sorry, what are the "things we have had DVC pass along to us since we had ownership"?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<more than they listen to disgruntled whiners..yep>> Right...what have they listened to you on?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 But Pierce let me ask you a fundamental set of questions that doesn't seem to make sense to some here- I understand the emotion but the logic is faulty 1/ if they stop building DVC units tomorrow are they going to plow that money into rides/attractions ? 2/ Oh btw- what cash -since the largest cash influx they have is from said DVC units - which is why they are building for the future 3/ the cry for just build it and they will come - I'm still waiting for the huge attendance figures that the last E tickets can take credit for 4/ If you were a stockholder ( and moaybe you are) do you want your company to have large ROI's and a solid P/E ratio so that you can borrow money for things like $1.1B DCA improvement at the lowest possible cost -( which DVC does by bringing in cash up front) - or should they tell the banks-- " but people love the new E ticket ?" - which one will secure you those favorable bond rates ? at lastly- someone show me anywhere where one red cent that was earmarked for parks was spent on DVC- separate wholly owned subsidiaries thisis a case where some just HAVE to have someone to blame- so they blame the visual target, without even trying to understand the financials behind it..whose got pixie dust in whose eyes ?
Originally Posted By MousDad >>ever hear of resale ? Does Disney want a flood of DVC units on the market at one time ? No- it looks bad..<< Point taken. >>but again we're just a bunch of idiots it appears - at least from some angles.<< >>whether you like us or not<< I disagreed with one premise, it wasn't a personal attack. >>I am not saying they ever will wield the impact AP DL people do- but it's the best chance the Florida parks have my friend..<< I disagree here still. That DVC owners are the best chance, that is. A potential contribution, sure, if not a sizeable one. But it would take more than that. I'm with Pierce also, in that my problem isn't with DVC per se, as it is with how DVC is used in the WDW scheme of things as a whole. Puts the cart before the horse in many respects. Part of the overall Smarmy Slipshod Shenanigans of the management of the Orlando property.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I'm with Pierce also, in that my problem isn't with DVC per se, as it is with how DVC is used in the WDW scheme of things as a whole. Puts the cart before the horse in many respects. Part of the overall Smarmy Slipshod Shenanigans of the management of the Orlando property.>> Exactly. My problem will always rest on the shoulders of the property's management, as well as Parks and Resort's leaders, and their apparent desire to turn the WDW property into a real estate market rather than a vacation destination.
Originally Posted By leobloom This thread is a black hole of wasted time. Somewhere Disney execs are reading this and laughing. DVCers have little power. Non-DVS fanbois have little power. People who couldn't care less are the ones calling the shots. If Disney would just get off their a** and build some solid attractions and maintain the ones that are already there, I wouldn't care if they built five new DVC resorts. It ain't about class warfare (whoever stupidly brought that up). It's about SHODDY THEME PARK PLANNING AND MANAGEMENT.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^^ Yes. Never said the fanbois have any power. I just find it laughable when DVC owners think they do.
Originally Posted By MousDad Sorry, I'm laughing. It's just funny how leo told us all to stop talking because it was a waste, but then finished by repeating exactly what we were saying. lol.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> It's just funny how leo told us all to stop talking because it was a waste, but then finished by repeating exactly what we were saying. lol. << Speaking of waste, gotta love those E-ticket restrooms. They keep me coming back to WDW.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Honestly, I think only the APs have power. DLs APs got THEM exactly what they needed. The thing is, our APs are very, very, very pro-Disney. Probably because there are less locals.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Thu 10/7/2010 12:34p <<more than they listen to disgruntled whiners..yep>> Right...what have they listened to you on? they've lsitened to DVC oswers at OKW when we asked for a slide to be added to our main pool, they listened to DVC owners when they asked for ticket discounts like we had early on.. they ask and sometimes listen.. what have YOU accomplished ? I know there just reading this now saying - oh let's build some e-tickets because Hokie and his posse want them- screw the finances - and let's stop building those nasty cash cow DVC units- we have truly lost our way.... oh brother
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Right...what have they listened to you on? <<< SM Music. Merch Food Maintenance. It's not much, but there has been a upsurge since at least 2009, I would say.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> they've lsitened to DVC oswers at OKW when we asked for a slide to be added to our main pool, they listened to DVC owners when they asked for ticket discounts like we had early on.. they ask and sometimes listen.. << That's wonderful. Doesn't make the parks experience any better for the millions of non-DVCers who visit every year. But, great! You got a water slide!! Disney rawks!!! Mickey is my co-pilot!!!!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 You're right nothing has happened because management doesn't give 2 craps. I've called Phil Holmse's cast member complaint line numerous times. I can't help it if nothing comes of it -- maybe try a different approach -- management likely will do what they have on their tactical and stregic goal charts regardless, but any chance of getting changes will come from shareholders, people invested in the company and other outsiders they feel may have some ( albeit usually small) influence on the bottom line. I would hope they would listen to cast members also - they definitely should..but if the approach has been what I see here- nothing grounded in finances- just emotion..it likely is deep sixed. Put together a well thought out request- that takes into consideration the company as well as yourself..one never knows. I admit it's a long shot- but complaining on forums that they build too many DVC units that are aiding their cash flow sure isn't going to be the way to affect change. I actually feel bad for you- as to get to the point where you hate your management team so much- you have zero respect for them-it has to be miserable trying to fulfill you work obligation. I know I'd be miserable. I mean that in sincerity as someone who's managed a large number of people for a lot of years. Sometimes one cannot affect change to meet their expectations- and it's best to seek something else. Now is a horrid time to be looking, but I would start at least behind the scenes. You are likely an excellent skipper as you have a lot of passion that is needed for that role - but I can't imagine trying to hide all the anger, each and every day.
