Originally Posted By vbdad55 I disagreed with one premise, it wasn't a personal attack. point taken Mousdad - hyperbole was out of line in response to your post. sorry
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I disagree here still. That DVC owners are the best chance, that is. A potential contribution, sure, if not a sizeable one. But it would take more than that --- in sheer numbers ( over 150K families - so lets say represent 600,000 people. ( many of which are also AP's and stockholders - who do you think has a better chance ? I agree the hard part with the DVC group is the diverse nature of where they reside and ability to organize a group thought-recommendation outside of strictly DVC issues - I am not saying it's not without it's challenges.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 That's wonderful. Doesn't make the parks experience any better for the millions of non-DVCers who visit every year. --- again that was NOT the question- it was what have they listened to us on -- no sense in answering a question if you don't like the answer..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The thing is, our APs are very, very, very pro-Disney. Probably because there are less locals. --- Ive not seen a breakout by state.country but that likely is very true. You will never have the same situation as DL - have to look for alternative way / group
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I just find it laughable when DVC owners think they do. --- you find a lot of things laughable- but if you ever sat down and actually put a thought to it- you might see there is some semblance of influence-- albeit small and mostly tied ONLY to DVC at the moment- many changes for us have come about in my 15 years of membership that I saw directly tied to requests and responses to surveys. Were some things ignored - of course. No one is saying we have some velvet hammer- but more influence than just complaining - um yeah
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<they've lsitened to DVC oswers at OKW when we asked for a slide to be added to our main pool, they listened to DVC owners when they asked for ticket discounts like we had early on.. they ask and sometimes listen..>> Here I thought we were actually talking about the parks. <<I know there just reading this now saying - oh let's build some e-tickets because Hokie and his posse want them- screw the finances - and let's stop building those nasty cash cow DVC units- we have truly lost our way.... oh brother>> Honestly, you're taking this way to seriously, and are really insinuating that DVC is more important than the parks, but I digress. Where am I clammoring for E-tickets? No where. That's right. I just want the parks taken care of. basic ideals like...I don't know fix attractions. And sure a addition would be nice here and there but I don't expect them to build an E-ticket every year. But by all means continue to misconstrue what I say.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Here I thought we were actually talking about the parks -- you asked what we influenced and I answered and are really insinuating that DVC is more important than the parks, -- show me any where I ever said that because it's not true- but for 2009 - 2010 if you're asking me where much of Disney's cash flow positive ROI is coming from that's a different question. YOU want to somehow make DVC out to be the park killer- sorry it's not and nothing you have said remotely points to it being so..
Originally Posted By MPierce >> 1/ if they stop building DVC units tomorrow are they going to plow that money into rides/attractions ? << Absolutely not, but that doesn't stop the anger. It's all about perception. You see a DVC being built, but no major attractions. >> 2/ Oh btw- what cash -since the largest cash influx they have is from said DVC units - which is why they are building for the future << Again it's perception. You see the DVC building on WDW property because of the Parks. Yet the Parks are perceived as stagnant, and of a lesser quality than they use to be. Folks aren't angry about Hilton Head or Hawaii for that reason alone. >> 3/ the cry for just build it and they will come - I'm still waiting for the huge attendance figures that the last E tickets can take credit for << You will get slight increases in attendance, but the impact really comes in maintainenjce, and keeping the Parks fresh as a whole. You have to give folks a reason to return, and you do that by giving them some new things as well as the classics. I would try the Governments line about look how many guest we saved by our approach, but I don't think you would buy it. >> 4/ If you were a stockholder ( and moaybe you are) do you want your company to have large ROI's and a solid P/E ratio so that you can borrow money for things like $1.1B DCA improvement at the lowest possible cost -( which DVC does by bringing in cash up front) - or should they tell the banks-- " but people love the new E ticket ?" - which one will secure you those favorable bond rates ? << I'm honestly more interested in long term sustainable growth with a proven commodity. Remember I am not against DVC. I am against DVC in certain areas, and I'm against DVC appearing to be the prime focus of the WDC vs the Parks. >> at lastly- someone show me anywhere where one red cent that was earmarked for parks was spent on DVC- separate wholly owned subsidiaries << It's the perception VBDAD. It's just like GMC dunping Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Hummer. They were seperate entities of GMC, but they were still representative of the corporation as a whole. >> thisis a case where some just HAVE to have someone to blame- so they blame the visual target, without even trying to understand the financials behind it..whose got pixie dust in whose eyes ? << I agree, but I believe it's less about blaming DVC, and more about blaming the Walt Disney Corporation's focus on DVC's.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Where am I clammoring for E-tickets? No where. That's right -- yep the multi thread references to how WWoHP supposedly is paying for itself are someone else I guess..ignoring the uniqueness of the subject matter in that $250M addition. Would I like to have seen that at DHS- you bet. Did Disney bid on it- my understanding is they did...
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Hey vbdad -- could you do me a favor and put >> arrows << around the quotes from other posters? It just makes it easier to tell where their comments end and yours begin. Thanks!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Again it's perception -- perception and reality have two different places on a continuum however...plenty of perception out there not fact based- and one reason the country is as divided on so many issues as it is. If it was reality then there'd be an issue - less than apocalyptic given the state of the economy and cash flow- but an issue none the less.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> This thread is a black hole of wasted time. << That sounds like one of Velvet Jone's books. >> Somewhere Disney execs are reading this and laughing. DVCers have little power. Non-DVS fanbois have little power. People who couldn't care less are the ones calling the shots. << There are tons of businesses in the business graveyard that felt that way also. >> It ain't about class warfare (whoever stupidly brought that up). << Meekly raises hand. To hell with that worthless !
Originally Posted By leobloom Hey vbdad -- could you do me a favor and put >> arrows << around the quotes from other posters? It just makes it easier to tell where their comments end and yours begin. --nope the dad dude doesnt roll tht way..but him sure do love his Dee Vee Cee
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I'm honestly more interested in long term sustainable growth with a proven commodity ---- whihc is a journey for any corporation, not a point in time. Without sustainable cash flow there is no growth at all- and future plans will always be on hold.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I'm honestly more interested in long term sustainable growth with a proven commodity. Remember I am not against DVC. I am against DVC in certain areas, and I'm against DVC appearing to be the prime focus of the WDC vs the Parks.<< That's where I'm at, too. It's great that there's a market for DVCs and that people enjoy being able to buy in, I have no problem with that. But without remembering the whole reason people want to buy in -- the parks -- is critical to the success of both ventures. It's disappointing when attractions go away in favor of something more 'profitable'. I was stunned to walk into the Main Street Cinema in the Magic Kingdom and find... a shop! Ugh.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's the perception VBDAD. It's just like GMC dunping Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Hummer. They were seperate entities of GMC, but they were still representative of the corporation as a whole --- a perfect example though - they were able to be cut loose SEPARATELY, they didn't have to bring the shingle in to do so. They lived and eventually died on their OWN.. Chevy and cadillac and their leadership ( under the GM umbrella) brought more to the table and hence they're still around. They didn't plow untold money into Pontiac even though they too have a fanbois following for their boy racer cars. In the end it was dollars and cents ( and sense) that made the decisions to close those entities.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<yep the multi thread references to how WWoHP supposedly is paying for itself are someone else I guess.>> You asked for an example of a ride that can drive profit and attendance. I'm trying to get the specs on EE, because I know it had a similar effect on DAK.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >>Hey vbdad -- could you do me a favor and put >> arrows << around the quotes from other posters? It just makes it easier to tell where their comments end and yours begin. Thanks!<< I can't promise but I'll try and remember-- wireless keyboard giving me issues lately leaving out characters, I think it's seen better days and needs to be replaced.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >>--nope the dad dude doesnt roll tht way..but him sure do love his Dee Vee Cee<< really ? nothing better to do than take a shot over something like that ?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Yes. Never said the fanbois have any power. I just find it laughable when DVC owners think they do. << I really think they do, and I hope they will have a bigger impact in the future. DVC owners are the whales of the theme park industry. They are a big cash cow for TWDC. If Disney is smart, and they are very smart most of the time, they will keep DVC owners happy. I think fanbois can have an impact too. Only to a smaller degree. If fanbois weren't important Disney wouldn't bother to read the forums.
