Originally Posted By MPierce <<in today's economy Lee- if this was your family company and the jobs of hundreds of thusands of people depended on your decisions.. would you go back to the 'just because' method ?>> >> I'm not advocating that - but investment in the parks will continue to lag behind until Hunt's model is ditched. I've hated the model since it was first introduced. You need a more holistic approach that also includes intangible benefits that can't be measured in an income statement. << I wish there were more in TWDC that felt that way.
Originally Posted By leemac Let's be clear about this - the largest capital expenditure of late has been entirely knee-jerk - a reaction to failed projects. DCA isn't getting the money because the project met any financial metrics - it is getting it because DLR was in the last chance saloon with a failed second gate. The company had to pump in some money to keep the resort concept viable - too much else was riding on a DCA that would finally meet attendance markers. Same for HKDL - (and Hokie - it is the Hong Kong SAR government that finances the resort - basically HK tax payers). WDP&R had little choice but to finance an expansion. In the last decade there have only been two substantial projects that have been approved that are outside BAU - Aulani (and it is now costing nearly 25% more than originally planned as the company didn't lock in the construction costs as prices of imported material skyrocketed) and the two new cruise ships (which are costing 30% more than they should have because Jay was convinced that the price would come down and that the $/euro rate would move in their favor - which it didn't). I'm sure that the two new cruise ships will be monster success stories - we have championed them for years. I'm immensely worried about Aulani - building a $1bn+ DVC/hotel hybrid just doesn't stack up in my mind. I pray to God I'm wrong because if Aulani does fail then we can kiss goodbye to any developments outside the berm for a generation. There is too much riding on Aulani for it to fail.
Originally Posted By GOB On a slightly different topic, the RCID released it's 2020 plan yesterday. 51.4% of land is being reserved for conservation. Any idea what the old rule of thumb for WDW development was? Wasn't it 1/3rd was already development, 1/3rd is for future development, and 1/3rd for conservation, or was it 2/3rds for conservation? The World seems a lot smaller now. My heart sunk a bit when I saw powerlines and outside venues riding between Kidani village and the AKL. They recently cut down a huge swath of trees north of the proposed HSR station and west of ESPN's Wide World of Sports. However, the tree-cutting epidemic doesn't seem nearly as bad as it did in the '90s, when virtually everything was cut down...the STOLPort development area...5th gate development site...Mediterranean plot, etc.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >I'm immensely worried about Aulani - building a $1bn+ DVC/hotel hybrid just doesn't stack up in my mind. I pray to God I'm wrong because if Aulani does fail then we can kiss goodbye to any developments outside the berm for a generation. There is too much riding on Aulani for it to fail.<''honestly I share the same concern about Aulani. I love the Vero resort.. I truly do, but let's face it size wise it is tiny and aside from spring training seasonal time, it usually is available 7 months ( not 11 months out) - I have not been to Hilton Head so hard to comment but disappointed it is not ocean front. Aulani is really good size. Question for Lee- do you think they will tie the west coast cruise line to Hawaii ? That could help attendance wise - maybe . But that is a lot of rooms far from DL
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Let's be clear about this - the largest capital expenditure of late has been entirely knee-jerk - a reaction to failed projects. DCA isn't getting the money because the project met any financial metrics - it is getting it because DLR was in the last chance saloon with a failed second gate. The company had to pump in some money to keep the resort concept viable - too much else was riding on a DCA that would finally meet attendance markers<< kneee jerk maybe not so much so since it took so long, but desparation I agree with as otherwise that initial investment looks very poor. Question is would a 3rd gate ( if they managed to squeeze it in ) been more or less help if the cost was about the same ?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Dave why in the HELL can't you leave politics out of a discussion about Disney. <<< Politics and people are one in the same, I am politics, and DIsney is a reflection of what annoys me in the world. Why does it offend you so, and why is an issue when I do, but not when Spirit does?
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer Yay. Let's wedge Fort WILDERNESS between 2 $$$ properties. One for the mega-rich, one for the not-so-rich, but not poor crowd. HORRIBLE idea. No more DVC is needed and there are other places to put a new hotel.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Now ... should be interesting dinner.<<< If I would have gotten us there, on time, do you really think it would have been as much fun? ;-)
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Same for HKDL - (and Hokie - it is the Hong Kong SAR government that finances the resort - basically HK tax payers). WDP&R had little choice but to finance an expansion.<<< One could even say that the powers that be in HKDL (...and maybe even in China? Oooh, what would that mean for future...erm...ventures!? ) have lost faith in Disney's brand of "quality".
Originally Posted By MPierce >>>Dave why in the HELL can't you leave politics out of a discussion about Disney. <<< >> Politics and people are one in the same, I am politics, and DIsney is a reflection of what annoys me in the world. Why does it offend you so, and why is an issue when I do, but not when Spirit does? << Here's the difference Dave. Spirit takes a swipe at everybody. You just single one party out constantly. You use words like hate, and despise when you refer to them. You take a Disney forum, and turn it into a political forum. I really laughed when you posted you treat people the way you would like to be treated. Teach your children well Dave, and I'm sure they will gow up filled with hate just like their Daddy. I'm going on sabatical for a good long time because I neede to get away from the hate filled people of the world like you Dave. When I have to listen to the garbage you spew out it takes the joy out of posting here. Good-bye for now to all my good LP friends.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Don't go because of me Pierce. Jease, grow some will you? Perhaps I should be the guy that bails. Sorry to ruin your laughing place.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<HORRIBLE idea. No more DVC is needed and there are other places to put a new hotel.>> And WHY would a regular hotel be better than another DVC? The 'regular hotels' are FAR MORE overbuilt than DVC is.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo FWIW, I do treat people the way I would be treated. I am for freedom of speech. If that means disagreeing or debating so be it. Much better to be true to thyself than to live a lie. If I can instill that on my progeny, then it is one of the greatest things I can do. Conservatism is not a party, it is a state of mind, one that IMHO is warped most of the time. One that is selfish, and causes a lot of the problems the world has to endure. Hell, it even extends to decision making in corporations like Disney where DVCs are chosen for investment over cap exp in the parks. Yet what will deliver the greater good for the place and it's community. I think it is I that needs a seb. I don't like what is happening to the world, I don't like what is happening to WDW, and it is all freaking me out a little. There is much you do not know about me Pierce, and what I am trying to piece and hold together. What is at the root of most of the probs are selfishness and short term thinking, two attributes that are very much a part of the conservatism movement to my mind. So adieu
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It's a bad year and I think the election is getting to everyone here. The ironic thing is I hear words like hate and despise directed at Obama and liberals FAR MORE than I hear them directed at conservatives. As for DVC, to quote a great man "Now ... can't we all agree that DVC just plain sucks and is Satan's work?"
Originally Posted By leobloom I hope DVC is satisfied with itself. It's cost us our most loyal in-house conservative and liberal posters. So I guess DVC really is the root of all evil!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Don't go because of me Pierce. Jease, grow some will you? Perhaps I should be the guy that bails. Sorry to ruin your laughing place.<<< Dave, I respect and agree with you on most things, but I don't think telling Pierce to grow some will help with the situation, even though I know you mean mostly well. Time, I think, for peop,e to turn the Internet off, calm down, and just realize tat its the Internet. All talk. Doesn't matter. Learned that the MAGICal hard way.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I agree Dave and Pierce are important contributors on LP. I do not want them to leave. ANd I know they are both mature enough in their personal and professional lives to never give up. SO please hang in there. I will admit this has been a tough post to follow but I have learned alot and appreciate all the contributions. P.S. Spirit ain't never going away; gotta love him for that!
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt <<Good-bye for now to all my good LP friends.>> I will miss you MPierce. I really will
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >>It's a bad year and I think the election is getting to everyone here. The ironic thing is I hear words like hate and despise directed at Obama and liberals FAR MORE than I hear them directed at conservatives.<< just depends what crowd one is with- I hear plenty from both sides..it is an equal opportunity hate fest
